Karoo 2 - First Impressions
Planned
- My iPhone X paired first time with no issues, after entering the pairing code.
- My Polar H10 HRM paired first time with no issues.
- Have not tried pairing anything else yet.
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Official comment
Hey Steve,
Sorry that we could not get the unit in your hands sooner. I really appreciate you taking the time to provide such detailed feedback on the Karoo 2. I will share this with the wider team here to ensure that your feedback on all areas reaches the right departments. We will be sure to follow up on this thread with responses to each of your feedback sections.
We certainly look forward to hearing more from you after you have gone out on a couple of rides.Comment actions -
I agree with the concerns about the mount. However, my biggest complaint about it is the lack of a way to have a bottom mounted light or camera. There really needs to be a GoPro adapter for the bottom. Stupid as it sounds, this makes things difficult for me since the mount that came with my light also mounts on the left side of the bars. There is not enough room for both to be mounted on the left of my bars. So, I will either need to use a special, right mounted mount for my light or use the wobbly Garmin adapter with my K-Edge Garmin/GoPro mount. Neither is a great solution.
Also, the supplied Karoo mount is too wide (left-right) to go on the Aero bars of one of my bikes. It hits the bulge on the flat part of the bars. With my Garmin I use a narrow K-Edge mount. I would definitely be interested in a narrower (maybe half as wide), Aluminum, mount with a GoPro adapter. I would happily pay extra for this. I'll bet that Hammerhead could get K-Edge to make one. Or make it themselves.
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Just 2c / 2p on BUTTONS.
Given that the unit is setup to be on a level with handlebars, I am surprised by the choice to put the buttons at the lower end of the unit. Gripping them is harder than it needed to be. Indeed, putting them as close to one another as they are (especially without the very distinctive feel of the K1) is also unhelpful.
Why not use the full length of the side? Top buttons at the top where the are unmissable. Bottom buttons better separated but clear from the bars.
Obviously one for the K3.
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I love my new K2, but:
- The wobbly Garmin mount is sad. I've had many Garmins (a drawer-full), Garmin mounts and Garmin-mount accessories (including my favorite headlight) and have never had a problem until the Karoo 2 showed up. This should be recalled and replacements shipped out free of charge! I'm not about to switch to a new mount system and I really don't want to have to dive into Thingverse (custom 3D printed parts) -- but thanks for the offers from other on this thread.
- There are touchscreen UI elements (pause/continue?) that show up on top of other UI. (Why have touchscreen UI that is redundant with the lovely rubber buttons anyhow?)
- On the buttons - it took a while to figure out what they do... I might have missed something in the setup but it's hard to find anyplace they are documented. (I looked in the "keys" part of the FAQ and there's nothing there...)
- Went for an evening ride and the screen was so bright, I could hardly see the road. (Auto-dimming is really important.)
- I expected to see more widgets and options for customizing my ride profiles that take advantage of the amazing screen on the Karoo 2.
- Large font text options (including system messages) would be most important for me, as many people over 45, I can't read normal text without reading glasses.
- I really have been a Garmin-hater for years, but I miss the more detailed ride stats, especially recovery time. I'm hoping that FTP estimation etc will also be there soon too (after all the other stuff gets worked out...)
Thanks!
-Donald
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I'll tack on here instead of posting my own, as it's a lot of "me too" and you've done a good job summarizing the issues. I'm about to post some of this to my dusty old YT channel, but in many cases, it mirrors or just slightly expands upon what you've written here.
Mount: Only just put my mount on the bike (initially used the Garmin adapter to get out and ride) and had a lot less trouble threading the bolt, but it was a bit fiddly. I, too, am concerned about the longevity of the mounting plate as after just a few turns in/out, there are already noticeable marks in the plastic. As you noted, the Garmin 1/4 adapter feels loose and moves on one-handed button presses. The good news is that they finally listened to a complaint I had two years ago and made the lanyard stretchy, which mostly solves the problem of getting it around your bars instead of just around the mount. That and the relocated position of the tether point is welcome.
Hardware: Does overall seem better quality. The exception is the mount which seems secure, but somehow "brittle"?
Lanyard: Noted above.
Charging and Cable: The quality of the cable is good. Charging did take a while for mine, too. It arrived at 50% and I didn't bother to charge before riding. A 90 minute-ish ride (screen on while stopping to record a few videos) dropped it to 30%. A full charge was slow, but that could have been a result of the USB port on the computer. Without a power "brick" included, it's not completely clear what the amp/charge rating should be? I would suggest searching Amazon for a 90-degree USB-C cable for your handlebars. I've bought a few for cars and elsewhere that work well and come in that seemingly nicer braided version.
Setup: Good as noted above. The only manual effort on my part was to re-pair sensors, which completely makes sense and I'm sure isn't even "sharable" via a profile. Phone pairing was also good, although having to remember to start the Karoo companion app is a bit fiddly and I'm sure I'm likely to forget that more times than not. That said, I have the same issue with my Angi-equipped helmet from Specialized. Also requires an app running in the background to send its hope-you-never-need-to-use 911 call...
Dashboard: New version does look nice, although I had some issues clicking on my most recent (Karoo 2's first) ride. Got several errors before the page with the details finally came up.
Screen: The screen is good/great although there seems like "more" not less bezel? I actually didn't check the brightness and usually have that at about 30% to save battery on my Karoo1. I'll have to check and adjust is the 20% battery loss over 90 minutes continues.
Maps: Can't speak to the POIs as I didn't look or notice. Maps downloading based on the Karoo1's settings and profile is a nice touch.
Buttons: Since you commented on those only briefly, I'll note that I'm having a bit of trouble (after 2 years) re-mapping my brain to the change in button position and the fact that we're "missing" one. With 4 instead of 5 buttons, I often pressed the wrong thing or felt like something was missing. Is there a way to "sleep" the screen now? That used to be a quick press of the power button, but since that's now shared with the "pause" button, it was really unclear to me.
SW: My issues continue to be with the software and things that I think are missing or could be improved upon. I've posted -- many times -- in the past to the ATG, but sort of gave up on getting any suggestions either addressed or even commented on. That's my biggest complaint right now, so it's not really the hardware, but the continued UI issues.
More in the video. I'll post a link once I finish recording/editing if anyone is interested.
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Glad I'm not alone in picking-up on some of these points, Doug. I was worried I'd been a little too negative in my review.
The longevity of the mount/Karoo 2 interface is my biggest concern right now, especially after seeing this post about a piece of plastic breaking off the actual Karoo 2 - rather than the mount - after less than 24 hours of use. The twisting and pulling forces required to remove the Karoo 2 from the new mount are much greater than what was required to remove the Karoo 1 from its mount, which was a better quality all round.
Like I said, I'm still not 100% convinced there was a problem to be solved here. If there was, this new mount was not the solution. Trouble is, we're now stuck with it because it forms an integrated part of the Karoo 2 hardware. I remain hopeful that a third party will create a mount that fits the Karoo 2, but works better (after licensing the mount design from Hammerhead for an extortionate fee, no doubt). It's so frustrating having to use this junk mount because there are so many better mounts out there I could have used to mount my Karoo 1 on top AND a GoPro or front light underneath.
In response to your question about if there's a way to sleep the screen, I accidentally discovered that buttons B+D (bottom left and right) - pressed together - will sleep the screen.
Please do post the link to your recording, once completed; I look forward to your review.
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+1 to the above comments.
I'd also like to chip in that you should sell spare USB cables on the Karoo shop, because it is a very narrow head. My quality genuine samsung charge cable wouldnt fit in the charge port.
Also, you should design and develop a shorter cable for charging while riding. I bought the Karoo2 specifically because of its' navigation capabilities, for long multiday rides while bike packing. Charging on the fly will be mission critical, especially toward dusk, when the battery will be low, and time will be short.
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So I just received my Karoo2 and here's a few observations I came across after first use. Overall enjoying the function of this unit vs my Karoo1.
As some mentioned there seems to have been some lost opportunity to make the screen slightly bigger but its working for me and outside having trouble reading field names, my aging eyes are managing.
The top row of information and %level just jumbles all together and of no value. Also ride time over an hour runs into my distance.
The Radar beeps are nice but having a hard time deciphering between approach and when all cleared. A different pitch or something would help here.
I for one like the new style mount and looking forward to seeing more options come to market . Definitely reach out to Kedge as they seem to be listening. I ended up with a hack to allow me to attach my light and working nicely. Just used two longer screws and a k edge go pro adapter and tied the two together.
Battery life at 50% brightness is OK, I think. 1:40 min ride and dropped to 74% life. Was hoping for a little more given its a new unit and had such a horrible experience with my old Karoo.
Looking forward to more time with this unit but its a good start.
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I have to agree with @Andrew G about button placement on the Karoo 2. It is the middle of winter where I live and I have to wear heavy gloves at the moment. Trying to change the zoom level on the map, by pressing the lower right-hand button, has instead frequently resulted in me either pausing my ride recording or putting the screen to sleep, by accidentally pressing the lower left-hand button as I struggle to find a place to steady my hand on the device. While wearing gloves has undoubtedly exacerbated this problem, the real issue is that there is insufficient space under the lower buttons (or above them, per Andrew's suggestion) to easily place your thumb on the device, to oppose a button push on the opposite side.
This is in contrast to using the offset buttons on the Karoo 1 (not to mention the much better button tactility!), which made them super easy to use, even in the winter. I suspect the new layout was chose to facilitate simultaneous button presses, to bring up the Quick Menu (by pressing the upper buttons) or to put the screen to sleep (using the two lower buttons), something which was a little awkward on the Karoo 1. That would be fine, with different button placement and a little more space around them.
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Hey Steve, Here are the responses from the team.
Initial Set-up:
We love that this went so smoothly for you. We spent a lot of time trying to make it fast and easy. We’ve explored alternatives to typing in your password, but it’s good you had a way to retrieve yours.Dashboard:
Right now, settings are synced across both Karoo 1, Karoo 2, and the Dashboard. We appreciate the tweaks you’ve suggested to improve how that’s communicated. When, if ever, would you want to have different settings on your Karoo 1 than on your Karoo 2? We want to understand how we might best make that happen if it’s something you’d find valuable!Screen:
The Karoo’s screen is its most power-intensive component, so to make it as bright as an iPhone X would come at the cost of battery life.Maps:
WRT the built-in POI icons, do you use these frequently? We would love to understand how and when.Mount design:
The product team wanted a lower-profile mount with a larger contact area. This means that the vertical height of the mount and device is less while also being less susceptible to breakage. Furthermore, Hammerhead wanted to move away from a standard or a variant of a standard that we had not invented. The plans for the future of this design has opened more possibility for us. You are correct that it is a bit more difficult to assemble onto the bike which we have noted and could improve with future batches. We did an extensive review of 3rd party Garmin brackets and found a large variance in their design, field testing has helped us identify ways to improve the Garmin adapter for the future. Spare will be available in the summer.
Hardware:
We simplified the button design to be more reliable over time by making it a part of the main chassis. This means they are more rugged, less prone to sticking in muddy conditions, and more waterproof. However, this did decrease the overall button travel and audibly “click” sound. Tradeoffs that we tested and felt were sufficient for the gains.
Lanyard:
Thank you, we took a lot of feedback from Karoo 1 to make a better lanyard design.
Charge Cable:
We specified the USB-C port to keep up with the latest standards and we provided a stock high-quality and branded USB-C cable. We have noticed that most users will not charge in-ride and for the ones that do they often have nuanced or varying needs for the length of cable, type of charger, and type of battery pack. We encourage these riders to find a quality USB-C cable to meet their needs. Typically if you buy from a trusted manufacturer it should work with Karoo 2. If in doubt look for USB-IF certified cables here: https://www.usb.org/products
Charging:
You are correct in the ability to charge at higher currents above 1.5A, especially early in the charge curve. We will always keep that knowledge base article up to date. The charge icon sounds like a bug. A good reminder is to never charge your device if it may have a wet charge port, always dry it thoroughly prior to charging. -
There's some discussion in this topic about retro-fitting the K-EDGE GoPro Combo Mount Interface to the underside of the Hammerhead mount. Looks like a good solution.
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