K3 critical Feedback
Hi, since K3 popped on the marked you might find a lot of (paid?) tests & reviews with rhapsodic praises on the web. Many of the points are correct, it's a great device (as the K2 was) but from my user-POV I also want the critical topics to be covered. Since the exciting HH-Slogan was "something new is on the horizon" I thought about a great revolutionary device which solved all the problems and user request of the K2. But I was in some points disappointed...reading and testing the K3 for me stay's just a "so what?"
- The K3 has bigger battery....so what? K3 has a lot of features, nice maps, nice display, can handle a lot of sensors....that's why you might want buy it. But if you use all these things, the lifetime is still not longer than 8-9h max. And throwing away the SIM-Slot to get more lifetime is not a solution --> lifetime for many short ride riders ok, but not for long distances/ backpacking... Sorry, for 500€ I don't want to carry an extra powerbank
- No SIM-Slot: The possibility to do e.g. Live-Tracking via SIM in K2 was outstanding! It was also possible to use the Hotspot of your mobile phone instead. Now you MUST carry and use your mobile phone. I understand, a lot of people carry their mobile phone day & night... but also a lot of people don't or they want at least to have their phone turned off for a while --> So the lack of this feature is absoultely disappointing. HH says, just 5% of the K2-customers used it. But isn't it the same with a lot of other features? The most customers buy bikes & gear which they will never ever use in full potential... but for the 5% who really wanted, used & loved this SIM-feature the K3 has disqualified in this point
- Map-Navigation cursor position: A very old & frequently user request reagarding the optimization of the cursor position in the "North-is-Up" and "Direction-Is-Up"-Orientation is still not tackled. Still the old problem: Big Screen, but only a part of the map screen really shows the road ahead since the arrow is not optimal positioned and wastes a lot of map
- New Hardware: 64GB of ROM?? 2GHz Quad-Core Processor? This features are better than a lot of modern PC's & smartphones. With this HW it should be faster than an Iphone15Pro since we are talking about very basic "Bike Computer functions" and not AI-Driven rocket science tasks... Regarding these great HW-Specs the K3 has a reaction time like a 1982 Commodore C64 trying to run a 4K-3D-Videogame
- Ascent/Climb-Data measurement still inaccurate K2 had/has massive problems with wrong elevation measurement, especially when using the SIM-Card. In K3 they threw away the SIM...simple "solution"; as in K2 without using the SIM the values are mostly OK....but still not as accurate as other devices from other OEM's. To me it is not clear how the Hammerhead uses the barometer & GPS-Altitude. They should have a look e.g. at their Partner Suunto who combines barometer, GPS-Altitude to compensate & recalibrate while riding e.g. if the weather changes and the airpressure drops...
- Price explosion +25% compared to K2. Why? Better HW but without significant effect on performance? Lack of SIM-Slot (cost reduction)? Inflation? SRAM-Prices? Worth the money? Customers will decide...
OK, with the new device the HW won't change anymore...too bad. But at least for the SW-related topics I whish HH would listen to their customers and bring solutions....even if it is for the "5%-minority" of the user
BR, Andreas
-
Hi Andreas, pleased to read you...
About the SIM-Slot... I think as you think, maybe there are a short percentage of people using it, but this little thing was any of the ones, perhaps the most differentiated, that made K2 unique respectively the others cycle computers, be independent of an smartphone while having internet connectivity. Saving the SIM-Slot space could be useful for improving other features, I don't really know, but I can imagine for instance a bit longer battery, or so. But it could be an intermediate solution, using an eSIM.
Now, as I could read the "K3" features, HH give more importance to the smartphone, and just force users to carry it if they don't want to loose connectivity on the road.
Btw, it is not a well known "feature" (a hidden feature we could say), but K2 could be used as a phone for voice calling, just with BT earphones... if anyone wanted to forget the phone at home for any reasons, but wanted to carry the most important feature of an mobile phone, that is being an emergency tool just in case.
Regards.
-
I purchased the K2 shortly after it came out and immediately asked HH when they would implement live tracking and ride uploads via BT. Several requests were made and the answer each time was that it was being worked on and would be coming in the not too distant future. After a while they stopped answering me and, of course, never implemented those features. Now they have gotten there with the K3, in a hamhanded sort of way. The companion app, as near as I can tell from the sparse information on HH's site, does not share your location with anyone automatically, as happens with Garmin (and Garmin has done so for years now). Yes, it shows a location but does not show where you've been, which is sometimes good for the follower to know. I've had my share of crashes and breakdowns and I'm older now. My wife really likes to be able to know where I've been and where I am. Garmin removed the friction from this process a long time ago. I've given up waiting for HH to do this right and today made the move back to Garmin. Would have appreciated more honesty from HH.
-
I was also a little surprised by the reviews from some well-known gadget testers. Not that the Karoo 3 is a device that should be vehemently criticized, I'm even considering switching to it myself sooner or later, but I wondered why they didn't want to address some of the shortcomings of the Karoo 2 in more detail and whether they are still present in the new device. Like the largely useless battery saver mode on the Karoo 2 or the rapid battery drain on the last 20%. Or if only one map page is still possible or the third generation still requires an active internet connection to create a route on the device. And what about pausing navigation when following a route
In the reviews you hear a lot about the potential and possibilities that the new hardware and software could offer in the future. But well, the Karoo 2 already had potential for clearer off-road maps or a more flexible UI, but it never happened. So what will happen in the future? The last few software updates have been mainly training and workout related updates, just like one of the few new software features presented with the new Karoo (the structured training drawer). So it will be interesting to see which direction Hammerhead will take with the Karoo under SRAM's leadership. And the uncertainty of which steps of this direction the Karoo 2 will be allowed to follow and which steps will be restricted zones. They were actively selling the Karoo 2 until last fall, so the decision to not implement the ability to change the background image on the Karoo 2 is in my eyes a first limitation for the Karoo 2, that could have been taken deliberately, because, in my opinion, there is no real hardware or software reason for it. And I wonder what comes when Hammerhead introduces a long overdue more flexible UI in the future, will the Karoo 2 be allowed to participate or will it (like the Garmin xx30 devices) have to stay on the old UI with some of its weaknesses?
I just would have liked to read more about this and the hefty new price in the reviews.
Still, I think the new Karoo will be a great device for the future as it improved most of the Karoo 2's hardware-related weaknesses. And with the right software updates, it might be less painful to swallow the new price, as it will stay above €400 even with some special offers and discounts (just like the 1040 and 840). I'm just waiting for the new Wahoo, which I think might be somewhere just around the corner, and whether Garmin offer a smaller unit with an Amoled display, before I decide to upgrade my Karoo 2 to the new unit (mainly for the battery runtime).
-
Good points Andreas:
I would like to add 2-3 more points which had been worrying me already since the Karoo 2 and which had not been improved unfortunately:
- As I'am doing some bikepacking and also long distance races I'am not able to charge the Karoo 3 via my USB-C cable on my Bike Harvester USB-PMX. Every other single piece of equipment I've, watch, spare light and so on also the latest Garmin 1040 Edge can be charged with this device and gets recharged by my Sons Dynamo. But not the Karoo 3, only if I pack another additional cable and using additional couplings and battery pack in between
- Display brightness. Nice to have a Sensor now on the K3 which adopts to the ambient light. But in most of the time almost the lowest setting was enough on my K2. But riding in the dark didn't improve really as its to bright in the lowest and dark mode settings. Its getting really stressful over time when you are watching on the dark streets and you have to adopt again after watching on the Display, that's an absolute now go! And the reason why i dont use it on very long night rides!
cheers
Michael
-
Adaptive brightness is about the second setting I turn off on my phones and tablets right after keyboard sounds. I just find the inexplicable changes in brightness more annoying than having to adjust it manually every now and then. Wondering if the K3 is any better in this regard, then again I suppose the use case is a bit different also in that you rarely look at the device for longer than a quick glance.
-
Hi Anna, yes Adaptive Brightness and sounds can be turned off on the K3. I'll do the same on my phone and tablets. The K2 didn't had any adaptive Brightness control as it has no sensor so this has to be done manually anyway on the past Model.
I've the issue that even in dark mode where the letters background turns from bright to black the display (only the data fields not the map) is to bright when riding in the dark which is absolute annoying.
-
@ Mike, if you find the screen too bright for night riding you do still have a couple of options (at least on the K2 - I don't have the new one so don't know if it's still the case).
You can still access Android's Night Light function which give an amber type tint & is less harsh on the eyes - although over the years & updates Hammerhead have made it much harder for the unfamiliar, or alternatively you could side-load an app to put a dark filter over the screen.
If you want further details let me know?
p.s. What the issue with your charger? I thought the Karoo's could be charged while in use, is the cable too big to fit in the recess or something?
-
@ Lee, I didn't realise you'd bought one already, I'm looking forward to your review. I do really like my K2 ( though to be honest it peaked early last year - ebike integration & since then the updates have done nothing for me) but am still struggling to see why to upgrade while my K2 is working perfectly. I even don't mind if the K3 starts to get features that the poor old K2 hardware can't cope with, just please don't stop it from working with the dashboard as that would really kill the unit.
-
Thanks for all the comments regarding Screen, brightness and so on.
Sideloading or is it called SDK (As ive seen somebody has loaded Zwift on his Karoo) i dont know for sure so excuse me if i throw in some phrases which are not 100% correct, is not possible with the K3.
Developer mode is not available anymore and I also think they will not activate it anymore as I think SRAM will not allow to mess around with there FW and keep it more a closed system.
Resume, Relax sunday ride on a sunny normal day 120km, turned off all the connection features and Auto-brightness adjustment. Just had my heart rate monitor, Sram Quarq powermeter added, no shifting indicators and so on. Everything in ANT+ mode.
Preloaded course, Screen brightness arround arround 15% to 20%.
Bluetooth, Wifi and so on deactivated.
Started with 95% Battery ended with 38%, I really dont know how they get out 15h of the K3.
Compared to my girlfriends 1040solar I know its not 100% fair but the integrated Solar panel isn't giving you 3-4h more battery time (20min to 1h maybe at its best) but she lost 18% on the same ride.
Maybe with battery saving mode turning off the display on the K3, but than in my opinion it makes no sense to use a Bikecomputer like this as I want to know my current output values specially here in Austria on long mountain rides you don't want to over pace.
One Pro thing: the rerouting feature works insane fast but to be honest I'am not going 38-40km/h all the time to be in the need of such an fast re-calculation so my older K2 will also do it.
Fazit for me, I'll stay with my current K2 as the key features are almost the same as also the Battery live has not really improved for me (Yes i know you can buy 100 of add ons and attachments but that's not how it should be and the thing for me i don't want another battery pack I've to take care).
Even worse the K3 cannot loaded by the USB-PMX Dynamo buffer battery , but the K2 does it.
cheers
Michael
-
I had a remarkably different experience on my Sunday ride - the first with the K3. I took a 108 km ride that took 4 hours. The following sensors were connected: Wahoo Tickr (for heart rate), Garmin Rally (for power), Garmin Varia Radar, Garmin Speed, and iPhone notifications. I started with a battery charge of 95% and returned with 75%. The battery consumption per hour was about 5% - so quite exactly 15 hours possible. Since I was taking a route unknown to me, I mainly had the map view activated. In addition, the elevation view was activated in the map view. Compared to my K2, this is a significantly improved result.
Edit: The screen was set to auto-brightness the entire time. There was no need for adjustment as it remained clearly visible even in broad daylight.
-
Hi Michael,
Developer mode is usually is normally hidden by default, although you are probably right that SRAM/Hammerhead may have made it so that you can no longer access the deeper system on the new Karoo sadly.
The battery usage from that ride is also disappointing, only looking to be marginally better than my K2 and I have more ANT+ sensors as well. I agree about the main point of a computer being the screen & not wanting to need to have it turned off to last during a days ride. I don't ride for that long often, so I manage with my K2, but had hoped for better from the new version.
I still don't understand the charging problem from your USB-PMX Dynamo buffer battery. Is the port on the new Karoo recessed to deeply for the cable to fit/connect, or maybe it doesn't provide enough Amps? Apologies if you don't understand the cause of the problem either. It's another negative against buying it. If it had incredible battery life you might be able to forgive it, but as mentioned above that's not the case, so charging on the go (like the K2 can do) would have been very useful.
Charles
-
Cheers Lee, I did know that already, just didn't want to side track the post with all the minutiae of unlocking dev options, then side loading via ADB or alternatives if Michael wasn't really interested in perusing it - which I don't think he is.
Thanks for clarifying that it's still doable on the K3 though, if I do go down that road in the future. I have several apps (F-Droid, Aurora Appstore, OSMand, SRAM AXS app, Specialized App (sadly now broken so one reason to upgrade), Lupine Light app & Browsers etc.) all of which greatly enhance my K2 making it so much better than the competition, even despite it's shortcomings.
-
@ Lee, It sounds like you're slowly being won over to the new update, got to admit all the photos of the new screen do look really nice & am pleased you're enjoying it. I'm still kinda hoping for a Black Friday deal or something - around the £400 mark would definitely help to tempt me. I'd still kinda hoped for more improvements, but maybe in a few months HH/SRAM will get more out of it & also supposed I should pleased they they at least didn't screw it up like many other companies seem to do with things these days.
Any chance you could confirm that the k3 can be charged by a usb powerbank while running at some point for me, I really can't believe it's not possible & am assuming Michael's problem is down to the new port design? No rush though, as I say I'm intending to wait a while unless my K2 has any unplanned mishaps (smashes or splashes in other words).
Cheers.
-
@charles
I hooked up my K3 to a small 5000mAh power bank that I usually carry as a backup during bikepacking. During a relaxed one-hour Zwift session, I let the K3 run and record the session. The sensors connected to the K3 were the Wahoo Tickr HRM and the Wahoo Kickr Core, which measured power, rpm and speed. The test started with a battery level of 65% and ended after an hour with 99%. So, just like the K2, the K3 can be charged via a power bank while it’s in use.
-
@Charles:
Sorry that I’ve not been clear enough in my statement, iam referring to the USB-PMX Dynamo buffer battery which is used to convert the AC current from a Dynamo hub during riding into DC forwarded to a battery and stabilized, which can be used to charge your devices during the day and is used for your lights in the dark. On Previous model K2 I was able to recharge the device via the attached this connector as also my watch, cell phone and so on. The K3 does not recharge on this device.Just want to clarify my normal battery bank is doing its job as I think every battery pack with an usb-C connector or adapter.
Sorry for the miss leading here.
Cheers
Michael -
No problem at all Michael. Everyone's knowledge about different subjects varies & some are more technically minded than others - that's not a criticism - we're all different. Then there's a potential language barrier & your English is far far better than my Deutsch. I had a pretty good idea of the type of device you were referring to, you seem to be suggesting it plugs in ok, so perhaps it is unable to provide enough current.
Either way I'm sorry for you it doesn't work on your new K3.
-
UPDATE: I’ve been using the new Karoo for several rides now and for the most part, I’m happy with it. But the battery life is a bit of a head-scratcher. On my first ride on May 26th, the battery was draining at about 5% per hour, and after a 4-hour ride, I still had 76% left. I couldn’t help but grin from ear to ear after that...
The week after, I went on a three-day bikepacking trip from Munich, Germany to Lake Garda, Italy, averaging about 130 km each day over 6-7 hours.
On the first day (June 6, 2024), I finished the ride with a decent 39% battery left, not as good as on May 26th, but not bad. On the second day (June 7), the battery drained a lot faster and I had to plug in a power bank after 5:36 hours when it hit 12% to keep the navigation going. On the third day (June 8), I ended up with 51% battery left, but the Karoo lost connection to my Garmin Rally pedals early on and couldn’t reconnect.
During all the rides, I had the following sensors active: Wahoo Tickr, Garmin Rally, Garmin Varia, Garmin Speed. Most of the time, I was in map mode with iPhone notifications turned on.
I’m not sure why the battery performance varied so much across the four rides, even though the distances covered, ride times, and sensors used were pretty much the same. I didn’t reset the Karoo or change any settings, and the battery was fully charged at the start of each ride. All the routes were pre-planned via Komoot and loaded onto the device. I hardly ever had to deviate from the course or reroute.
I don’t mean to bash Hammerhead, as I’m a user of both the Karoo 1 and Karoo 2. But I’m disappointed that this brand-new device isn’t meeting my usage expectations because of its unpredictable battery life. I emailed their support team on Monday, but I haven’t gotten a response yet. If this keeps up, I might have to return the device before the 30-day trial is up, as it’s too expensive for these kinds of ongoing growing pains. After my first ride, I was optimistic that these issues would be finally fixed with the third iteration of the device, but that doesn’t seem to be happening. I found myself pulling a long face after that...
-
Could it be that the ambient light conditions (sun/shade) were different enough to account for the differences in battery life, assuming you had auto-brightness on? Temperature is a huge factor as well, my K2 now struggles to last for 4 h at a few degrees above freezing (and at well below freezing it actually ran out in under 2 h) but at warmer temps it can still have almost 50% left after those 4 h.
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
24 comments