Route making

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22 comments

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    Jeff Smith

    Yes, I have seen this a few times in different places. The routing seems to think it can find you a shorter / better route and just won't stick to the one you want. 

    I have reported it to <H>  and I do find it impossible to get round once I come across an example of it.  In other places the routing works just fine, but this is very frustrating when you get it.

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    John Tonetti

    I've seen this, too, but not quite that severe.

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    Xander

    I've also experienced this. Especially on long straight paths (e.g. next to a canal) it's hard to make a route that goes "There and back again" along the same path. The route builder always has the tendency to 'make you go around something'.

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    Raveen Beemsingh

    This issue is due to routing engine's information on the road, we use OpenStreetMaps(OSM) to make the routes and the information on that route may not be correct, can you share the locations on the route where this issue has shown up, we can correct the OSM data and make this issue go away

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    Jeff Smith

    Raveen, for the example I was referring to, I did look at the base OSM map and there was no problem I could see.  What happened for me is that I could plot along a road and then if I just clicked slightly further down the road, the route would switch to a different, albeit shorter path.  If I started the ride at different point it would happily follow my path down that same road.

    The routing engine is over-riding points clicked along the route, and in fact leaving the little circles isolated away from the route it has now chosen.  It should not behave like that, and it is not due to OSM details I think.

    I have reported this behaviour, but I am happy to send the clear example I have again, just let me know.

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    Raveen Beemsingh

    Jeff, yes, I saw the image of what you are describing, this is a defect for sure

    concrete examples will help me test out the fix, 

    if you can share the route, it can be of help to me

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    Robert LaFont

    Raveen: I saved the ride but don't know how to send it to you.

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    Raveen Beemsingh

    Hi Robert,

    I will create a support system ticket get this detail from you

     

    Thanks

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    Robert LaFont

    Raveen: I think this will show the error. you can see the route will go no farther and if i pin a little farther it will backtrack and detour towards the previous pin.

    https://dashboard.hammerhead.io/shared/dEOpGDfL 

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    Xander

    Hi Raveen, 

    Here is another one for you;

    https://dashboard.hammerhead.io/shared/3gDQpelv

    Try closing the loop along the canal, good luck!

    (fyi: it's a route that is legally bi-directional at every point)

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    Raveen Beemsingh

    Thanks, Robert and Xander, looking into it

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    Gilles muoy

    hi Raveen, while you're on that matter, could you take a look at this: for some reason if I plan a route between these 2 points on the dashboard, I get the correct route, but if I plan the same route on the Karoo, the route is completely crazy... I really don't understand why they differ

    1- route as planned on the dashboard:
    https://dashboard.hammerhead.io/shared/EMZkxmYn

    2- same route, planned on Karoo: 
    https://dashboard.hammerhead.io/shared/uf3vYPdS

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    Marcus Needham

    Some background on why a route can suddenly change to a very short route between the first and last click waypoints only.  This occurs when the routing system cannot find a route using all the waypoints (click points) that you have specified. If it cannot find a route, it falls back to choosing the shortest route from beginning to end. We are looking at this, although choosing the best behavior is not as obvious as it might seem, since the underlying issue is that the routing system thinks part of it in unroutable.

    Here's what we suggest:
    - as you are clicking to add points, observe WHEN the route fails 
    - then click the "remove last point" button to remove the last point, and place it somewhere else, or move it to somewhere else. The positioning of this point next to a different road segment for example might fix this.

    Also, check what routing mode you are in -- you might find the "gravel" option might work in this case, if the routing system thinks one of the roads is unsuitable in normal "road" mode.

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    Jeff Smith

    Hi Marcus, thanks for the background.

    This issue keeps coming up with various people.  I think it is always going to be the case that OSM has some missing, inaccurate, or out of date information.  This means that dashboard routing will always be having difficulties if there is no freehand override, rendering the Dashboard very frustrating and sometimes impossibly usable.  This surely cannot be the goal for the Karoo which is so strongly oriented towards premium navigation features?

    We need some option whereby a freehand section can be imposed.  This would be best achieved I think by being able to select to go into a manual mode for a while, having locked the route so far.  Then going back to an automatic routing mode.  Once waypoints have been set, they should never be ignored by the routing.  The are waypoints.

    For me, this is the most important feature that I feel is missing on the Dashboard and urgently needs a fix.

     

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    Robert LaFont

    I got an notice this was fixed but still can't map the ride, no matter what type of bike specified. I also noticed the detour even has detours. enclosed is a link to the route it gives me. 

    https://dashboard.hammerhead.io/shared/avgzLoyu

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    Xander

    It seems the issue is still open as I am also still unable to map mine.

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    Xander

    Hi, I don't know if you have been working on this (I hope you do!), but I think I've found a part of the underlying problem - at least for some routes that all of a sudden make a detour without any logic. 

    Take a look at the picture below.

    You can see that the underlying road (white part) is - for some unknown reason - split up. And is thus... as if it was separated by a cliff. Though, it's strange that the brownish line (what I believe is a representation of cycle paths), is effectively attached to road, and thus should be no problem to take.

    The green line on the other hand seems to have no problem to making the gap but then it doesn't seem to play any significant role in route creation.

    Also, the mapping between those different map layers is sometimes way off, as you can see below:

    How come?

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    Robert Wehinger

    hi ... as I started riding in woods with my new gravelbike I'm wondering why there is no option to just draw a straight line turning the route function of for one "click" to overwrite the automatic route creating between two points... this would help a lot in route creation especially for MTB and Gravel tracks. .... similar to what gpsies.com is offering with "follow roads" can be unclicked ... maybe you could add this to your menu bar at the top or make it happen with a right click on the mouse button or pressing "ctrl" + left mouse button or something like that thx robert

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    Jeff Smith

    Too right!!  And I have been wanting this since April and … nothing.  I use Garmin Connect again now.  I used to use it with my Edge 820 so I know how it works and it has some useful features.  Including drawing a simple line when the maps are not up to the job.

    This was promised with the Karoo dashboard, but like many things promised we still wait.

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    Robert Wehinger

    Well Jeff ... I think they are doing a pretty good job ... garmin is far away from a easy way of syncing routes not talking about creating routes on the edge itself ...and I own a Ege 810/1000 and 1030..so I know what I'm talking about...... and there is no real improvement in terms of route building on the garmin since the edge 810........  so Karoo is really doing a very good job and there is nobody out there who can compete with the karoo in terms of dashboard and route building overall and its simplicity .... but of course it takes time and there is always space for improvement like being able to simple draw a line for a lot of reason ... 

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    Jeff Smith

    Hi - I suppose my patience is wearing thin now.  I agree that the syncing between the Dashboard and Karoo is good, and that the dashboard is potentially good.  Right now, I consider the Karoo good for recording rides, and useful for breadcrumb routes.  The dashboard is far too bizarre and restricted in its routing behaviour to be reliable enough for me to use confidently, and the turn by turn instructions on the Karoo too often missing.

    As an example, I am in Spain right now.  I want to ride to a place just 13 km away.  I plotted it out carefully on the dashboard, and it synced to the Karoo beautifully.  But the Karoo can't do TbT for this route, even though it was plotted on roads known to the dashboard.  I'll follow the red line, but this unpredictable behaviour just seems to continue.  

    And you are right, Garmin never did very well either, I suppose it is all a matter of getting enough good people working on the case, and it is hard for 'start-ups' such as HH.  For me, they have too often over-promised and under-delivered and hence frustration builds ...

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    Robert Wehinger

    Well TBT is a nice feature in general. I'm pretty happy with it so far as I'm pretty much always on mapview and just following the route ... for me thats fine ... sometimes I would like to disable it ... but maybe thats because I'm used to it from my garmin as I'm never unsing TBT on my garmin..... planing routes is a thing you have to get in touch with ... riding a bike is not just getting from A to B, it's finding the right streets with best views and less traffic ....anyway .... I'm waiting for elevation tracking so that you can see not just your elevation history but the whole route so that you know how far away from top you are ... thats something I always use on my garmin .... if you read reviews and what dcrainmaker mentions ... every new cycle computer ... like the wahoo element in the past needs more than one year on the market to get the software working reliable and all features available .... I'm pretty sure we will have a really nice cycle computer with stunning graphics for next season ....  

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