Things aren't looking very good for Hammerhead..
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It looks like this next release will focus on removing DI2. It will be shocking if they also manage to fix the reboot issue in the next release too. The reboot issue seems to be of secondary importance to Hammerhead based on them still releasing new features instead of putting all hands on deck t resolve the reboots. And now they need to focus on removing features on the next release. WHERE'S THE FOCUS ON THE REBOOT ISSUE?
I am very close to selling off my K2. The DI2 issue is disappointing, but the continuing reboot issue makes the K2 worthless to me. I am having to record my rides on my old Garmin. There is no point in having a K2 if I have to use the Garmin.
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Seems Blaming Shimano and taking no ownership for the impacts of the sale is the order of the dat, though poor or no du diligence is what's really to blame I believe. Bad behaviour by Shimano, but If I were SRAM I would have ensured a watertight agreement that the license for the product in its current form would be honoured under a SRAM ownership structure. This to see appears a massive legal oversight and reeks or a rushed transaction. Consumer suffers ultimately. I feel really let down as I value the features and enhancements and really resent a downgrade and removal of a key function that influenced my purchase decision.
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Im my experience of computers, if one is rebooting spontaneously it means the ram is maxed out, 2gb aint much nowdays, its got some big stuff going on, Garmin radar, a phone connected, all the metrics, ie power meter, cadence sensors, hr monitor, lights it all adds up and I'm convinced the programmers of this computer aren't as good as they make out in the advertising blurb. At the moment, a user/s have wanted auto-routing an option - that's shouldn't be hard, yet still not sorted, they STILL HAVEN'T GOT A WAY TO SEARCH from the map screen, instead you've either got to move the map OR sort out a route, imagine youre doing 150bpm it's raining: IS THAT ACCEPTABLE Hammerhead ? I 'was' gonna do the route thing on the phone and sort the place i was riding to today so instead i used Google maps in the pocket shouting directions from the pocket, all this and I've paid 360 quid for it. Serious changes are needed with this unit as losing di2 AND the reboote + the other probs which it has its a no-brainer to get a Wahoo Roam or a Garmin 1030 / the top model..i would be if it didn't work with my 1st gen. eTap...and feel ultra sorry for the shimano di2 users who'rere having to move to another make of cycling computer after investing soo much in it!
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k2 just rebooted today while riding and i lost the ride. after completing the ride and saving it correctly it just disappeared. it did not synch to strava and does not appear under rides. ii added a powermeter and axs this week and saved 2 rides successfully after that. update was run after the 2 incidents today. very disappointing as i did a memorable ride on holiday that is now lost. this never happened to any of my 3 garmins in the past
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Then you’re lucky. I went through this a while ago and got way into it. With power meter it’s dead on because calories are a measure of energy and integrating the power over time is precisely that. HRMs are still way off and just a measure based on speed and time is wildly inaccurate.
So if you have a PM then the number in Strava is accurate. Integrating over time after the ride is done is the proper way calculate calories.
But you do you, I guess.
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I have had several garmins and they pretty much mirror each other even the watchs. but my apple watch if I use that its way high or if strava calculates it. garmin is close enough to what I get with the watts measurement. but if I export that to strava my average is far lower then what my bike gives me. I guess strava averages it when your not peddling too. I dont expect perfect calorie calculation just an idea. from how much extra I have to eat I would say the garmin is a little high at most. but on a 40 mile ride I usually burn around 1300 calories but apple would peg me at 1800 calories.
Now if I don't have a HRM on garmin would give me about the same as apple or strava would with one.
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I’ve never experienced the reboot issue with my K2, but with many devices, this could be caused by running out of memory or storage.
I only install the maps for my immediate surrounding regions, and so have 2-3 GB free storage.
Folks who experience reboots, do you install as many maps as you can? Perhaps try removing unused regions to free up several GB and see if this resolves the issue.
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@Dan - If the crashes are memory based, it’s going to be based on issues with the DRAM not with the FLASH memory used for storage. The DRAM is not visible to users but only to the apps and OS. So you don’t have to worry about map storage as a source of crashes.
When there are memory related crashes they typically come from two places - stack overflows and data structure access. This to me looks a lot like a stack overflow or dynamic memory allocation problem. That usually comes about from function calls that don’t release memory and it just keeps growing until it overwrites something important.
Long answer for this is almost certainly not coming from map storage. I wouldnt hesitate to load up all the maps you want.
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@John - agreed, though low flash could result in a write operation failing, and calling code not handling it correctly leading to one or more of the issues you mention.
Slightly concerning that HH devs haven’t been able to track the root cause down.
I’ll continue to leave ample flash available, and just load the maps that I need until I travel out of state.
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Garmins are also crashing:-
I’ve had a few crashes on my garmin this year. At 250k it crashed and rebooted. Looked fine but the .fit file was missing the location track pre-crash when I completed the ride and saved the file. Had another crash at around 200km the other weekend. Came back online, I saved the file and started a new activity. No loss of ‘real’ data but training status missing.
I’m wondering if anyone else with a Garmin 1030 has had the white screen of death
Also WahooThe Wahoo elemt roam. Since I’ve had it from new I can’t stop it crashing.I cycled the Llanfair 400 at the weekend. I’d purposely split the ride into 2 x200km rides. At the end of the first 200, I simply switched routes and continued to keep the trail of my ride continuous.It’s got plenty of memory, 1.7 btw.But it froze on me at about 254km.Ok I manage md to turn it off and on again, it saved what I’d already ridden but I do use the trail kms to check where I am regarding controls.
3 riders on a recent club ride had Wahoos crash. -
@Jeremy Blanchard
Bad behaviour by Shimano, but If I were SRAM I would have ensured a watertight agreement that the license for the product in its current form would be honoured under a SRAM ownership structure. This to see appears a massive legal oversight and reeks or a rushed transaction.
Well, very lame of Shimano indeed. However, what should have SRAM done in your opinion, "ensured" how? Ask Shimano to keep the functionality? And if they refuse, what - cancel the acquisition? Like that would happen. And I don't really see another option...
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@Petr
Exactly. Before I retired, I used to have to negotiate lots of IP based contracts very similar to this. If it’s not your IP, you typically have no leverage. Shimano would have been stupid to give away an encumbered license that gave away that leverage. And, guess what, they didn’t.
So this is on Shimano. My personal guidance would be to be very cautious of further involvement with them as a consumer. Looks to me like there’s a strong chance they are going to exert this leverage on other competitive area - Wahoo, Garmin, Stages and others are likely next.
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I really hope this means Shimano shot themselves in the foot. The sensible approach is always to make the integration of the product open to everyone. Look at Garmin - they could have kept the radar profile private and force people to use Garmin head units. But they realized it's actually more beneficial to open the profile, make it standard and allow anyone to integrate the radar with their head units - I'm sure there are plenty of Wahoo users who bought the radar because it works with Wahoo devices.
I'm now seriously re-considering my choice of electronic shifting groupset as a result - I was going to get the Ultegra R8100 (as it's finally available - sort of) as I'm a long-time Shimano user, but I don't want to support such behaviour.
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@Petr - I completely agree. This sort of behavior is unacceptable and nothing I’d want to support either. We all - consumers and suppliers - all ultimately benefit by recognizing and adopting open communication standards. It’s been true in the computing, avionics, communications, networking, and automotive worlds for decades. It’s going to be equally true in cycling. Shimano is being ridiculous and they are wrong.
I also think in a more pragmatic sense that if one were to be looking for electronic drivetrains now, selecting Shimano could very well lead to being constrained to the Shimano ecosystem of components including power meters (which they have already) and bike computers when (not if) they have them. Do recall that it wasn’t too many years ago that Shimano did have their own head unit on the bars.
Now, with bikes becoming a more system product, it’s almost a certainty that Shimano will need to have their own head unit. When that happens, it looks like their intent is to cut off Wahoo and Garmin users as well as any other head unit.
Given Shimano dropped a fair amount acquiring Pioneer’s power meters, I’d expect Garmin, Wahoo and Stages to be in their sights right now as the next victims. They all compete with Shimano and Shimano is playing catch up big time in power meters.
That position is in direct contrast with SRAM/Hammerhead that despite being a drivetrain supplier they seek to support all drivetrains. I suppose that could change at some point but the contrast today is stark.
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If they don't go for wahoo/garmin etc ie want them to recind their rights to Shimano di2 systems, i truly will not be surprised, they've gone for a small manu. in HH, cept that small computer in this instance is now part of the bif Sram, it'd be the same if Campy decided to buy wahoo or such like. The only thing that's going for Garmin and Wahoo is the fact they don't own gear systems like Sram do. But like John says above, its only a matter of time before they do, look at Giant, theyre near the biggest manufacturers of bikes yet have a cycle computer, are they gonna be asked to not have access to di2 ??
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@Lee - of course, only Shimano knows what Shimano knows is going to do. If they don’t go after Garmin and Wahoo then they’re being inconsistent which is not typically one of Shimano’s characteristics. I just think it’s worthy to be cautious of them at this point if you’re going to risk $2500 on your drivetrain.
Cannondale is already setting bikes up as a system with their SmartSense system approach. So it’s all heading in that direction and it would be crazy to bet against Shimano integrating their drivetrain, power meter and other (upcoming) sensors into their own head unit. Surprisingly enough, that makes Shimano the high risk choice. Even Ray Maker bailed on purchasing a new Di2 Cannondale SmartSense Synapse for the closed system approach Shimano is taking with Hammerhead. He knows a lot more than I do about cycling electronics and something tells me that if that’s what he’s doing then that tends to support the point that Shimano is going more down that path which presents the risks we’ve discussed earlier.
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