Displayed Distance too high (and a few other things)
Completed
Hi,
latest firmware seems to have fixed the elevation calculation.
But now I have a deviation in displayed distance and the real distance which I get from the gpx track.
Yesterday I rode a few km taking part int #rideFAR event from Orbit360. The recorded distance on the Karoo was 181,2km, which was fine because the distance needed was 180km.
But after I uploaded the Track it was only 173,...km which makes it a classical DNF.
I remember there was another quite recent post on this topic but I can not find anymore.
I have another shorter track which is also missing a few km.
Please have a detailed look on this, this is an absolutely no go.
Another big issue is the battery drainage.
Due to injury I couldn’t test the Karoo right after I received it on any longer rides in the last months, but I very quickly realised on one of the shorter rides that the battery is drained very fast.
So I did empty it a couple of times like you suggest in one of your posts on the high battery consumption. It seemed to fix the problem, at least at home with no sensors connected and I assumed it will last for maybe minimum 10 to 12h.
Yesterday I very quickly realised that I have to put it in battery save mode or it will die after a few hours. That is in fact a very nice feature and I liked it popping up the map always in the right time just before any turn.
But even with display at minimum brightness, Bluetooth disabled and only a few ant+ sensors connected AND running the Karoo in battery save mode there were only a few % remaining after an 8:40h ride. I regularly do some 10-20h rides and I don’t want to always carry my power bank with me. I at least expect 10h+ in in normal mode of such a device and to be honest, if I had the chance to test it earlier on such a ride I would have returned it in 42 days period.
last point I have is the missing auto lap function. I know it has been discussed for the Karoo 1 until now there’s no fix for that. I really think this is such a basic function to implement and I regularly used it on my training rides with my elemnt bolt.
Hope you find a solution for this!
Cheers
marc
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Official comment
Hi All,
This issue has been addressed in today's release. Thank you for bringing this to our notice!
Comment actions -
Did you enable the auto-pause, and what pause speed did you configure? I'm wondering if the speed may have been below the set limit during the ride, although a 7 km difference is quite a lot...
Have you also tried to upload it to other sites to see if this makes a difference? For example Strava can re-calculate the distance / avg speed based on the GPS data.
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Hi Michiel, Autopause is set to 0 km/h.
Strava usually takes the data submitted by the device unless you recalculate it. So at first I saw the 181km but after uploading to Komoot (which shows the actual recorded distance from gps data) I got suspicious and did a recalculation. This gave me the actual recorded distance of 174km in the end.Already checked the recorded route and there a no gaps or suspicious data in between.
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Marc, here is a link to the "Speed Sensor: wrong auto calculation" post that you were looking for. https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/community/posts/1260800782169-Speed-sensor-wrong-auto-calculation
I always manually set the wheel circumference on my speed sensors because Karoo's auto calculations overestimate wheel circumference by an unacceptable amount. On my bikes without speed sensors, my Karoo 2's GPS sensor is very accurate in reporting distance traveled.
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I measured 2085mm and Auto-calculation currently uses 2127mm which would theoretically make approx. 4 km more. I don't know how often the algorithm is recalculating the actual wheel circumference but in my opinion it would make sense to recalculate it every time you start a new ride and fix this value until the ride has been finsihed. Could be the reason.
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I had a look into the Fit file. There is a deviation in GPS distance and distance from sensor. It's around 4% of the GPS distance (blue line in the chart below). Like Denny said, it looks like its constantly updated and GPS signal accuracy (red line, in meters) does have an influence on it. So probably it really would make more sense to calculate the wheel circumference during the start of the ride, as soon as GPS accuracy is within a resonable range, and fix it for the entire ride. But anyway, that’s academic-the real question remains
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Regarding battery, i guess 8h is the max we can ask from the device (as long as you have it in battery save, no sim, no wifi, no phone paired, not a very complex too-many-turn-alerts and consequently too many screen ons)
Notice the most optimistic specs and reviews talk about up to 12h but that would only happen with screen off all the time and no guiding, that is, free riding, just logging your ride but with no screen alerts. Compared to other dedicated devices it's quite not enough. Mostly bc most of the time you will use your device to guide you, not to just log your ride.
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Battery life seems a little bit „mysterious” - I’ve done only two rides so far which ended up with vastly different estimates:
1. Ride no. 1 - ~140 minutes, outdoor, only gps logging (no routing), around 50-55% backlight, ANT+ sensors (power meter, cadence, heart rate, shifting), BT connection with my phone, SIM data enabled, temperature 0 deg. C so quite cold. Ended up draining ~31% of the battery so full charge should last around 7.5-8h
2. Ride no. 2 - ~160 min, indoor, GPS enabled (just for test purposes), same sensors, I bumped up the brightness to 60-70%, in later stages even to 100%. Didn’t use phone BT connection and SIM data. Ended up with depleting only 18% so full charge would be estimated at around 15h - which would be awesome
So what made such a huge difference? Just temperature alone? Or SIM data / moving GPS use so much more power
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Thanks, Johnny for linking the original post.
Hi All, this seems to be caused due to inaccurate wheel circumference calculation. Please help us identify all the possible factors here on this form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfWU6OJBl68-5ush6netTcnWIetVvqJXdxTV2I5L7nGCVxs2w/viewform
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Hello
I also have a big battery problem:
I did a trip yesterday:
no sensor on, no paired phone, brightness to 0% (no typing error!) travel time 4.25 hours.
The battery has used 35%.
What does the battery use when sensors and phone are paired and the brightness is at 30% ?!
I am really very disappointed about this and am seriously considering sending the K2 back. -
My rides so far have been short, battery life seems reasonable but a bit worse than my Garmin 530. I guess longer rides will tell but I bought it mainly for navigation, so let us see.
The overestimation of distance happens for me as well, have a Garmin Speed sensor 2, seems like a common theme. Filed a ticket with ride file attached from my ride yesterday on a mostly straight gravel track and waiting to hear back.
Karoo2 auto-estimated my wheel size to be 2192mm, by spec the 700-x40mm tire I have (Continental Terra Trail) should be 2200 mm if I believe online charts, though I haven't measured manually. But in actuality Karoo2 overestimated my distance, compared to my Garmin Fenix 5 plus that I was parallel recording on, 28.6 miles on Karoo 2 and 27.92 miles on the Fenix 5 Plus, both paired to the same Garmin Speed 2 sensor. Both set to auto-calculation of tire size. Life is too short to be manually measuring tire circumference all the time.
I believe the Garmin value more as it was a fairly close match to what most of my fellow group riders got, some using GPS, some using speed sensors, some using Garmins, some Wahoo's. I was the only ones using a Karoo.Thanks.
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Saad
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Hi, Pepper!
That I does not sound like typical battery performance. I’m sorry to hear you’re having those issues. Many factors can impact battery performance, but we’d definitely be happy to review the FIT file.Please send us a message at support@hammerhead.io with that file and your Karoo’s serial number so that we may review everything.
Thanks!
Jami -
May i ask why one would like to use wheel size with a gps?
I understand we use that speed/distance sensor if indoor where there is no real movement, but, what's the point of calculating distance and speed with the wheel if those stats are given by the gps signal?
Just curious, not questioning your problem.
Regards
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As I understand it, between GPS and speed sensor, both have imperfection. Speed sensor is super accurate if the wheel size is manually or auto-calibrated accurately, as it counts every revolution of your wheel (unless you do something like lift the bike and spin the wheel in the air), and is way more accurate instant to instant, so you can get an accurate readout of your instantaneous speed. GPS doesn't have that level of precision, and can miss sideway movements, although generally pretty accurate in straight lines, assuming it gets a good satellite fix, but will never match the instantaneous accuracy of a speed sensor. That said, the speed sensor can cause big inaccuracies if improperly calibrate, as this thread shows.
In summary, some choose it for the over accuracy given proper calibration, other for the instantaneous speed readout.
I'm not into racing, I chose it because I like the consistency, accuracy and in general I'm a bit of a gadget freak ;-)----
Saad
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