Di2 support to be removed
Answered
Just read this : https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/05/shimano-forces-hammerhead-to-remove-all-di2-related-functionality-from-karoo.html
Have we an option to retain for those customers who already have a device and just stop from future sales?
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Yes, it's crazy
I would like to know what Hammerhead will do and whether we users can turn off automatic updating so that Shimano Di2 does not disappear on Thursday 2 June.Then I will only update my K2 when Shimano and Hammerhead have a collaboration, so Di2 going forward will work again.
And a video here from Sham Miller - GPlama Youtube video -
I blame Shimano 100% on this one, not Hammerhead. I will look at non-Shimano groupsets in the future.,
I do find it interesting that Hammerhead didn't tell anyone and that others had to break the news. They are obviously aware that they are removing the DI2 features in less than a week. Yet, they didn't tell their customers in advance. I guess they planned to tell us in Thursdays software release notes? It looks like they wanted to sell every possible K2 unit they could before breaking the news.
Sorry for the mini rant. I have to admit that the ongoing Reboot issues I am having with the K2 has me really pissed off. Now seeing things like the K2 mount that regularly breaks, power ports that burn up and seep glue, and lack of communication on the removal of DI2 features, really has me questioning Hammerhead as a business.
Hammerhead: Stop selling the K2 mount that you know breaks on a regular basis. Replace it with something that's usable.
Hammerhead: Improve the charging design so users can use any usb-c charger without fear of melting their device. This is the only device I have that I have to worry about what charger I use.
Hammerhead: Be up front about big changes, even if it's bad news.
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One of the key reasons I moved from Garmin to Hammerhead was the regular updates of new features and continous development. As DI2 integration is a key feature for myself, this development has effectivly removed the option of regular updates until this situation is resolved, always assuming it can be? So for the forseeable future, auto updates disabled and I am stuck on the current version! Very dissapointing news!
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Whatever the issue between Hammerhead and Shimano, calling this a "small subset of Di2" features is b.s. Hammerhead should be more honest if they want our respect. Shimano clearly pulled the plug on Hammerhead and now we've lost Di2 integration until further notice. Since all of the other computers have it, this is certainly a money matter and can be fixed.
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Agree entirely with Roger Smith, it is not a small matter for me. Integration with Shimano Di2 was one of the reasons I chose a Karoo. So much for continuous improvement, I see it as a huge backward step. Feel like I've been sold an expensive cycle computer under false pretences.
I guess it was inevitable after the takeover by SRAM. Will wait and see if they are serious about getting a new agreement with Shimano and until they do will disable updates and stop telling my cycle groups how good the Karoo 2 is.
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2 things 1. I did receive a email from Hammer Head about this today. So while people overseas (GP Lama and DC Rainmaker) did have time to makes videos the email was sent with in 24 hours. So I don't feel HammerHead was acting sneaky
2. this is 100% Shimano doing. There is no financial incentive for SRAM to stop support for Di2. The Karoo market share is to small to decide 1/2 to 3/4 of your market isn't worth supporting. hopefully SRAM and Shimano can come to an agreement. With any luck we can side load something manually??? -
This is a real blow.
No doubt linked to SRAM buying into the Hammerhead brand.
My question really is are we able to keep the functionality by not updating our head units in a week or so?
It's such a shame, I used an Edge 1030 before this.
Once my initial issues with my TACX rollers were resolved I came to the view that the Karoo 2 was the better head unit.
This massive step back for those of us who trusted the Hammerheaf brand. As the Karoo in Android based maybe, just maybe someone can find a workthru. -
Agreed, "small" is relative and in this case an inappropriate description. Sadly looking way into the crystal ball I can envision either Shimano acquiring control of SRAM or vice-versa some day, leading to the phasing out of either Di2 or AXS, depending on which name is on the top of the buildings. Either way the cycling community loses. The likelihood Di2 returns to KAROO is I'd suggest a million to one shot. It's not worth the licensing cost if that's even offered by Shimano going forward. For now the Di2 app on a phone or second cycling device I guess is the work-around.
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It's a bummer to loose all these features. They were really useful especially considering how user UNfriendly is the E-tube Shimano App. I bought the Karoo also for the Di2 integration.
The only valid reason I could possibly think of for Shimano to do this is that they might want to avoid to give full access to their proprietary software to a direct competitor (Sram) via Hammerhead. They are probably afraid of some reverse engineering stuff from Sram via Shimano protocols. It's not unusual. What is unusual, but totally in line with other major tech companies such as Sony or Apple, is not joining a standard protocol. They want to use their own because they think it's the best way to achieve what they want and protect their tech secrets -
This is really bad news, this product was sold as having system upgrades along the journey, this is a down grade.
The Di2 was like many others a key part of my busying decision.
Surely when SRAm purchased the company this issue was or should have been in mind. Consumers loose here, and I will not be forced down the group set route to regain a pre sold then removed feature.
This is also a trust and integrity issue, as we ( well certainly I ) bought in on the basis of the journey of improvement. So far I have been really happy with the product and the journey, today I feel let down and somewhat regret my decision. As a removal of the product is a downgrade and a removal of essential functions. I agree to that the ease of this interface made a mockery of the joke that is the E tube app.
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This sucks big time. No Di2 integration is a no go for me. Either change groupset or headunit. Headunit is by far cheaper than changing to sram. Bye Karoo and hello again Garmin. Sad to leave to a competitor that is worse but this is such a key functionality. Karoo is now selling a device that could be compared to selling a car without all four wheels. Yes it can still go forward but won’t be your go to vehicle.
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"I still ask why the lawyers didn't tie this up at the time of the takeover." - its not up to the lawyers, it's up to Shimano. They were the ones allowing HH to access their private protocol.
So the HH and SRAM owners have to decide. Do we want this to derail the deal? Shimano *might* throw their toys out the pram, or they might not, but if they do, do we care enough to abort the deal?
I cant imagine either of them would have cared too much about it.
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Whatever the cause, the Hammerhead founders have sold their company (lucky them) and now the users are left with the damage. If Di2 functionality is not returned, it will be interesting to see how many people switch brands over time. I know I will not be buying another Hammerhead and will go back to Garmin or Wahoo. The computers are too competitive in their performance and features for one to go without a major function
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Shimano is hurting the same consumers that are also using and supporting their Di2 product, they don't care about their customers. If Shimano is doing this because SRAM is a competitor, then why can Garmin allow their Varia radar support on competitor's head units, I just feel like Shimano doesn't play nice.
I didn't like HH's statement that it affects a "small subset" of features, dude those are major features. But their choice of wording in the entire communication makes me believe they're being very careful with Shimano, hopefully there is still communication going on between the two to find a resolution.
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Dick move by Shimano. There’s nothing Hammerhead can do about this, according to Ray. Except…
Hammerhead should enable a feature to downgrade current firmware to the last version that supports Di2 (and make that firmware downloadable) in case one accidentally updates, and for new buyers whose devices come with newer, non-Di2 firmware.
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