1.320.1298 update the removal of the "Built-in GPS"
Answered
With the 1.320.1298 update the removal of the "Built-in GPS" on the sensor page creates a problem. I have a combination cadence/speed sensor on my Trek Domane. I have not been utilizing the speed aspect, just the cadence aspect. With the removal of the Built-in GPS I no longer get speed, distance or average speed. Prior to the update by moving the Built-in GPS to the top of the sensor listing, I was able to get all of the speed functions.
Now I need to find a magnet to attach to the wheel to get the speed function back.
Any work around other than adding a magnet to the wheel?
-
@Jay: We are sorry to hear that that the removal of the in-built GPS from the list of sensors have caused this problem for you. Since a number of riders in the community are using Combined Speed and Cadence sensor and out of these, a reasonable number of riders are using just the Cadence element, we expect a workable solution to address this use case will be released in one of our upcoming releases.
-
1.320.1298 – Update DISASTER
Last Thursday I went for a walk. Just before going out, Karoo 2 showed me there's an update which I did. The update worked without problems and after that I prepared a new route and left. Very quickly and to my great and unpleasant surprise, I noticed problems with my unit.
First, the gps built-in was not there, the cadence, the temperature yes, but no speed and no speed, no distance.
I looked immediately at the state of sensors but gps built-in was not there. Later, the yellow arrow that marks my location just disappeared from the map and I wasn't sure where to go. I stopped to turn off and restart Karoo, 2-3 times, and finally the arrow reappeared and so I was able to continue my journey to the destination. But that wasn't the end of my problems.
On my way back, still no speed and therefore no distance but that's not all. During the ride, the screen automatically closed after 15-20 minutes and I had to press a button to turn the screen back on.
Once at home, I tried to hard-reset hoping that the gps built-in will be back but it didn’t work.
How is it possible to release an update that is causing so much trouble after all of development. Now, I wonder if before releasing update, there is a quality check of this new update or everything is done in a hurry, just to release whatever it means for the end user. This situation, it shouldn't have happened at all. Really deplorable.
All this is really surprising and it is not the kind of surprise that we would like to have. In fact it is very disappointing and certainly not the way to keep its loyal users. You want « surprises », then take Karoo, maybe update will work, maybe not, cross your fingers.
-
@Romi. I have asked the same question before about the level of quality checking prior to a new update. Hammerhead assured me that they do rigorous testing before they release any updates, but I still think they release the new update and pray it doesn't cause any problems. They are then relying on us, the poor fools who bought their unit, to find any errors and report them.
The reply from Hari to Jay on this thread is typical of Hammerhead. It acknowledges that their update has caused a problem (obviously not found before the release) and instead of saying that they WILL have it fixed in the NEXT update they say, "we expect a workable solution to address this use case will be released in one of our upcoming releases." I hope @Hari reads this because it is deplorable as you said @Romi!
-
@Steve, we're not users, we're free testers and, ironically, we're the ones paying for it, so we having "fun".
@Jay, indeed, you are right but a bicycle is not an airplane where you have to double the systems.
Imagine, you want to sell it now but you have to say that for speed you need another sensor because
yours, your own sensor, doesn't work.
So it's not the question of protocol or because the sensor comes from another company,
everything is yours. No magic here.
On the other hand, I'm still surprised that the company added the possibility to check the tire pressure,
this request really surprised me, but even today there is still no calorie calculation unless you buy power-meter.
Calories are really very basic.
This last update makes me think about a sentence from the movie "A history of violence": How do you that up ? -
It is too bad that this happened for sure. I too went out for a ride the morning after an update, and no speed sensor. I eventually figured out what was happening by reading the release notes for the update and disabled my speed/cadence sensor, thus allowing the GPS unit to function as a speed sensor again. I didn't get any cadence data for that ride and won't until the issue is resolved. So, yes, I was frustrated at the time and am disappointed about the lack of cadence data, since cadence is something that I am currently working on with my riding. Not being able to see it hinders that effort. But that did not make it an Earth-shattering disaster - at least not for me.
One of the great things about Karoo are the frequent software updates with new features and bug fixes. I don't mean this as any kind of excuse, but every release, no matter how carefully you test, runs the risk of introducing a problem you did not anticipate. Testing is hard. It is very hard, and especially when there are hundreds(?) of different sensors out there and with different quirks in behavior; quirks that only show up in particular combinations, etc. It really isn't reasonable to test that whole matrix.
That aside, how about a suggestion? Would it be possible for the software team to release in two separate streams; delayed by say, two sprints? The first stream would be a beta stream that customers could sign up for. They get the latest release as soon as its available; maybe they get some kind of additional benefit? They end up (knowingly) getting software that has not yet been widely used (though it has gone through the usual Hammerhead release test cycle). The second stream would be those releases that make it through the Beta group without any unacceptable or unanticipated issues. Something like that would have prevented this issue for sure. There are many of us who would sign up for the beta-release stream. Happy to do it. Those that want a more stable release stream simply do not sign up for the beta-release stream. They get software updates a bit later; but are more assured of a seamless experience.
-
Dear riders, we received a confirmation from the Product team that they will be addressing the issue where the Riders use just the cadence element from the Combined speed and Cadence sensor and just use the in-built GPS for speed.
We have found that another issue where the Combined speed and cadence sensor doesn't report the speed properly to Karoo 2. This is for the riders who use both speed and Cadence from the Combined speed and cadence sensor. May I know if any of you are facing the above issue?
-
Hari, I experienced the issue of the speed and distance being incorrect (off by 10 to 15% when compared to what Strava calculated for the ride) when using my combined speed and cadence sensor. I corrected the issue by moving the "Built-in GPS" up in the sensor list so it read speed data from the unit instead of the sensor. I assumed it was an issue with the "auto calculate" wheel circumference feature.
-
After putting a magnet on the spoke the speed/cadence sensor works for my road bike profile. On my other bikes the profile does not include any sensors so the GPS in the head unit provides the speed/distance function. I have not noticed any issues other than what I describe at the start of this thread.
-
Hello I have the same problem.
I have a Fazua drive on my gravel bike.
"Built-in GPS" + Fazua sensor (Cadence+Power) worked fine in that order. Actually the drive provides speed+cadence+power, but that doesn't work with Garmin and Wahoo either.
Please excuse my machine English.greetings from Germany
Jürgen
-
Hello,
I have the same problem since the update. Unfortunately, the built-in GPS speed sensor is not prioritized and the Fazua speed sensor is therefore used.
Unfortunately, you cannot select which one you want to use in the sensor settings. You can only disable the entire sensor. But I would like to see the delivered power and cadence values.
This worked fine before the update. -
it's the annoyed part isn't it @Juergen.. ;-) =D didn't see you mentioning that but @Steve Jensen closed group beta is how most software houses run and is also an opt-in option now on Android Play Store.
Can I second Steve's request but I would suggest something additional
- Closed beta with (EA/LA builds dependent) power users
- dedicated support channel for power users/beta users (zendesk, etc)
- unit recovery/restoration instructions
- factory and update image downloadsto help refine I would also remove the ability to OTA beta builds and provide a centralised download location to adb flash/sideload to provide additional logging for field sensors - this also will help refine the beta closed group users. win-win really... but that's just me 2c's... be well..
-
@Jürgen
Unfortunately, with a speed sensor that uses the wheel size as a basis, you always have different data to previously GPS-based data.I would then use a cadence sensor as a workaround and then disable the entire Fazua sensor.
In my opinion, Fazua's power meter values are not very accurate anyway or the baseline has been shifted. -
@Hari
why can't Hammerhead simply offer the previous version as a workaround?
It's summer now, now the Karoo 2 is being used. It's of little use if a solution might be presented sometime in the winter with the next updates.Up until the update, I was really convinced of the product. Unfortunately, that has suddenly changed.
So I can now buy any additional product (cadence or speed sensor) to be able to use the bike computer reasonably useful. -
@Hari - I assume your suggestion is nothing more than that. If you review the additional forum topics and complaints around this issue you will find it is more than pressing so I would suggest that "a few releases" is not an acceptable answer for a regression in build features with this client base - one of which that it is sold on is GPS and the reason it has a sim card.
So I would strongly suggestion this is escalated this internally with product management and adjust the priorities or rollback with removal in feature flags because it is a breaking change and is requirement for most, if not all, features of the device and it's very function - to measure speed, cadence and location. -
Dear rider, the Product team has already prioritised the fix for this issue and this will be fixed in the next release cycle. (It won't be there is the next software update this Thursday but the one after that) . We appreciate your patience and understanding while we work through this.
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
45 comments