Incorrect Elevation Gain
Answered
Hi guys,
Let me share with you a couple of bugs I have found:
1. When sync routes from Komoot
Planned route in Komoot:
Dashboard after sync Komoot account:
Can't understand the difference !! And why does it change from 370 m (which is the real gain) to 728 m!
2. When riding
Planned route in Komoot:
Recorded route in Karoo:
I truly believe that Komoot has calculated the gain correctly, but these 500m difference it is simply not possible....But there's more... When you click on the route, the gain is different...
Can't send now the K2 screen but at the end of the ride the field ASCENT showed: 1772 m. I'm gonna try switching the Elevation Calibration to Manual to see if this second problem is solved, but the planned routes one (where apparently the dashboard just has to sync with Komoot) I can't figure it out.
Thank you !!
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Hi Ali, thanks for your reply.
I’m not sure if I understand your answer.I think the point is, that the recorded value of the Karoo 2 is much higher than the real elevation. This values is also transferred to Strava giving the wrong ascent for the ride.
However you get the expected ascent for the ride if you let Strava recalculate elevation with corrected data.
will this be fixed with the next release? -
Im happy with the elevation results the K2 is now reporting and no longer have to use strava correction after every ride like on the K1 which was 20-30% under, the result are now more inline with garmin results as well. Not sure what hammerhead are intending on implementing as they will never please everyone.
Although device should not be tailored to match any specific map data from a third party, it should be calibrated to give the same results as a confirmed ascent through physical testing. The same route can be different elevation data when plotted on RWGPS/Komoot/Strava etc. We all like our elevation to show the same as our riding partners etc, but what's the point of fudging to incorrect data.
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May be certain units are affected, my K2 is inline with Garmin 830 and expected gain from strava routes. Would be interesting to know what Hammerhead intend on performing changes if thats what they plan, if they are performing a blanket percentage fudge reduction then I won't be happy unless I know it's based on true physical testing results.
I know the K1 fell short by not registering small gains like bridges, where the garmin used to give 10ft the K1 didn't register but ascent gains on big climbs used to be fine.
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New K2 user - My first ride with the K2 yesterday resulted in an elevation gain that was 76-340 ft greater than the calculated values for three other online analytics sites (see below). This data shows the folly of trying to correlate to any single third-party site. So, I agree that K2's built-in barometer should simply provide the most accurate device-based measurements possible.
This morning, I tried to set my base elevation manually but received an error "Elevation calibration failed". I submitted a support ticket and am waiting to hear back. Accepting the fact that atmospheric pressure can affect device readings, the auto-calculated elevation was 256 ft and my actual elevation is 330 ft.
@Ali - I look forward to testing the next release. Thank you.
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This is a really strange one.
I recently analysed one of my more recent rides (using the previous software release 1.189.994) via the Hammerhead Dashboard and compared my Karoo 2 recorded elevation at various points in the ride against the spot heights published in a British Ordnance Survey Landranger 1:50 000 scale map (printed map). Admittedly, it was only a short ride, with comparatively little elevation gain. But here's a few data points to chew over:
Komoot planned distance: 54.5 km
RwGPS planned distance: 55.2 km
Strava planned distance: 54.34 km
Karoo 2 recorded distance: 54.4 km
Komoot projected elevation gain: 420 m
RwGPS projected elevation gain: 429 m
Strava projected elevation gain: 508 m
Karoo 2 recorded elevation gain: 495 m
Komoot projected highest point: 143 m
RwGPS projected highest point: 142 m
Strava projected highest point: 143 m
Karoo 2 recorded highest point: 144 m (the contour lines on the OS map indicate 144 m is very close to the highest point on my ride - see screen capture below):
Upon uploading to Strava, I decided to correct the elevation to see how far out it was:
Strava corrected elevation: 502 m
There were parts of my ride that were 100% spot on (to the metre), with regards my location and the spot height on the OS map. There were other locations that were some way off.
A couple of points and one request:
- It would be nice if the Karoo 2 displayed distance to 2 decimal places, like Strava does. My total distance for this ride (according to Strava) was 54.38 km. I honestly cannot complain about the accuracy of my Karoo 2 after it recorded 54.40 km.
- My Karoo 2 appears to have underestimated the elevation gain, according to Strava. Strava corrected my elevation gain from 495 m to 502 m (to within 7 metres is still pretty good, in my opinion).
- Admittedly, I'm not climbing as much as some of the other examples here (where I live is just not as hilly!).
- The majority of the oddities I've observed are in the Hammerhead Dashboard. Please see this post where I attempt to explain various discrepancies I've observed: https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/community/posts/1260801743149-Dashboard-Inconsistent-elevation-reporting
- I think Hammerhead should focus on fixing some of the discrepancies seen in the Dashboard data before attempting to fix anything on the device.
So, there it is. I will continue to keep an eye on things here but I am not seeing anything like the crazy figures quoted by some owners here.
Have a nice evening.
Steve
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Same here. Latest update installed on the Karoo2 before my ride this morning. Ride was showing 135m more elevation gain than my riding partner’s Garmin, and looking back at the same route tracked with my Wahoo Roam, the discrepancy was almost identical. I’ll take the extra metres, but would prefer if the unit recorded accurately!
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Hi All, an update that we are still working on improving the elevation gain reported via imported routes. It may not be possible to match all the platforms as there will always be a certain level of discrepancy but our plan is to get that down to acceptable numbers as well as close to the recorded numbers via Barometric pressure, which may always on the slightly higher side as seen on competitor devices too.
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This route was started and finished in the same point, so the elevation difference should be 0 – it's ~10m now.
Also, that route was more-less symmetrical, so I can see elevation in the first half on the route is lower than on the second part – looks like Karoo more eager goes downhill than uphill ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
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Just want to report that I'm having the same issue with my Karoo 2. Sometimes it's UNDER by hundreds of feet difference in elevation from Strava and other times it's OVER by hundreds or even thousands of feet. It's a bit frustrating, but the Strava correction makes it a bit easier to deal with. Hopefully we can get correct elevation soon.
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Hi, want to report the same issue.
Just received my Karoo 2 yesterday, nice hardware but the elevation missmatch is actually disastrous, same how the route builder works.
Created a Strava Flat Loop Route = 9m elevation (this is correct elevation)
Import/Sync into Dashboard = 75m elevation (way too high)
In my opinion, due to this massive deviation, the elevation profil, etc. functionality during ride will not display and work correctly as well. I will try it out later today to see how it's during the ride and what will actuall be recorded.
I need to point out - since this topic has been out there for several months already, without any improvements as it seems - that I am concerned if, how and when this will be fixed properly and entirely. This is a major reason to send the device back again. So any more detailed feedback on the resolution of this major issue from Hammerhead will be highly appriciated, I still have 40 days left before send back. Thx.
Also the route builder does not work for Vienna, Austria!
The whole area around my place are bicycle routes but I am routed strangely via main roads!?!
Below in blue represents the path it should take, and again elevation +21m (even for the wrong route) is way too much, must not be more than around 5m.
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The problem is still there Komoot or Strava planned routs show in the K2 and the dashboard shows totally wrong data. For any tour I planned the difference is always between factor 2-3 to much gain (2-3 times). This makes the information totally useless!
BUT ...it can get even more crazy!When you plan a route on the dashboard ... have a look to the picture ... SHOWS A GAIN OF 2392m and a extreme hilly route!
Real facts on this route - Germany - Tour from Gau-Algesheim to Boppard and reverse (all flat route aside the river Rhein) ... performed and RECORDED GAIN 173m -> https://www.strava.com/activities/5456220794/overview
Your algorithm are rubbish but nothing else ... get this fixed or remove the planning capability (and my assumption would be that the wrong gain information on imported routes are calculated with the same algorithm and so if you fix the one problem your will fix the other as well) -
I've received my K2 just over a month ago - what a great piece of hardware compared to my previous Garmin. But now I've noticed that the ASCENT is way out compared to all my riding partners' computers. On a ride this morning my
K2 recorded 659m. The Garmins recorded 362 & 360m respectively. A few metres variance is understandable and I'd even argue that the K2 is THE accurate unit, but when Strava auto corrects the ride and it's 366m, I sit with egg on my face. Do I have a faulty unit? Reading through this post, it sounds like this is a common HH issue. -
Hammerhead guys, please give us a real answer here. This is VERY basic stuff for a cycle computer. Especially on that is promoted as a computer built for navigating, building routes etc. It is completely not understandable that the elevation is way off.... It is quite a basic and important parameter for cyclists.
It is not correct in the routes and gradients are not correct in the Climber tab and also the Strava segments tab....(On a flat segment the graph in the display shows some kind of Alpe route....)
It is going on for many months now, and it does not seem te be given any real attention. So how long will it take? The next update? 1-2 months? Years? Maybe never? I think your customers deserve a fair and honest reply.....
So please step forward, and tell us what is going on.Thank you,
Benno van der Velde
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Are you comparing elevation on the HH Dashboard Map or on the Karoo itself? Because they are two very different things (but shouldn't be).
It's a well known issue that the elevation shown in the HH Dashboard is a work of fiction but I have found that my K2 is invariably always very close to the corrected elevation in Strava. Certainly nowhere near on the magnitude you describe above. At most, it's usually only ever a few metres difference over an average ride of ~500m elevation gain (where I cycle is not very hilly).
Suggest you try the following:
- Factory reset your K2
- Get it on the latest software
- Sign-in to your HH account on the K2 and allow your profiles to sync
- Allow plenty of time for your offline maps to download completely
- Manually calibrate your elevation for your location using https://whatismyelevation.com/ (I have found auto calibration to be unreliable following a factory reset)
- Ignore the elevation shown in the HH Dashboard - always - it's nonsense
Like I say, whenever I upload a ride from my K2 to Strava, it is almost always within a few metres of the corrected elevation in Strava.
If you're still experiencing issues after trying the above steps, suggest you "Submit a request" via the link at the top of this page.
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Still having the same issue, K2 unit reads c. 30% more elevation (360m) than my Wahoo (266m), which when both sync'd with Strava, and elevation corrected, show Wahoo unit to be 1m out from Strava yet K2 'recorded' an additional c.100m elevation gain.
This issue still isn't fixed, but seems something which should be a simple fix - Wahoo even explain how their units calculate such accurate ascent/descent data on their website if you look.
Bizarrely the automatic actual elevation on the K2 is more accurate when checked against recorded elevation data. So seems only when riding up/down elevation the unit calculates gain/loss really really badly.
With Hammerhead's backlog focus on 'stability and accuracy', seems bizarre they can't get such a fundamental and seemingly basic feature working correctly.
Same route synced in HH Dashboard:
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