My experience with the Karoo after switching from Garmin
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I just wanted to share my experience with the Karoo 2 after using it for about a month. I had bought the Garmin 830 last Autumn but was not satisfied by it. It felt like the least worse device. So when I saw the Karoo 2 I decided to give it a try. Very happy with it so far even though there are improvements I would like to see.
What I like better on my Karoo 2 (compared to Garmin):
- initial config and setup was really smooth. Packaging is also classy. Well done.
- the screen is so much better. Garmin looks too grainy like the first version of car navigation devices.
- the navigation with the yellow line and chevrons work much better than the red line on Garmin. Very good visibilty.
- Rerouting - it actually works! New route within 2 seconds. Unbelievable. My Garmin took ages and was useless, it kept pointing me back to where I went off-route. Even if I took a detour and was 10 meters before a point to the actual route. Basically, if you went off route with the Garmin you're screwed.
- navigation lock after going through a small tunnel. My Garmin took up to 2 minutes to understand where I was before it found out I am still on my route. And during this time there was no navigation.
- touchscreen - very usefull and working. Garmin touchscreen is unusable while riding.
- more HW keys. The 4 keys really allow for a lot of control. The Garmin has 2 buttons and one is reserved for laps, which I never use when on my road bike.
- Route downloading/syncing with Komoot. And the small graphical overview of each route in the menu is brilliant. Yes, it does require to sync via HH website, but I find that no problem. With Garmin my saved routes turned into a complete mess because it kept adding different versions of routes (no idea where they come from) and it truncated names, leaving me clueless which one is the latest version.
What I liked better on my Garmin (compared to K2)
- the auto-rotation to the navigation screen when approaching a turn.
- the analysis in the App of your workouts and rides. For Karoo you need 3rd party SW and most are paid for. I can understand that the focus is on the device for now (and it should be!), but I do miss the heart rate, speed per segment or cadence analysis.
- 24h battery lifetime - although at the expense of a bad screen and slow CPU. The K2 also loses more power when switched off compared to Garmin. However, I do see consistent usage of 8-10% per hour and the resulting 12 hours is more than enough for me when on the road. If I would need more I could easily put a power bank in a top tube bag. Hope I will also get 12 hours when temperatures are dropping again in autumn and winter.
Where the Karoo can improve (in random order)
- During riding my biggest gripe is that I have to take my hands of the steering bar to switch to the map. I would love to configure it to auto-show the map when < 1-200m from a turn or have a one button remote on my handlebar to change the screen.
- when I deviate from the route, it quickly reroutes, but shows that route in red without chevrons. I would propose a better visible color (orange? and with chevrons!). Or stick with a yellow-line but different color chevrons.
- when first using the device, the functions of all buttons is not very clear. There could be a small booklet or clear pointer to the website what you can do with the buttons (call up quick action menu) and screen (one/two finger double tap)
- the screen after booting up is not very untuitive. It combines a profile selection with an action key (ride) and the menu key. It is not untuitive that when you select ride or the menu, the highlighted profile is actually selected.
- I hate that Strave calculates my moving time from GPS data and that the K2 auto-pause moments are not taken into account. This ruins the average speed. I hope you can fix that in the way you format the data in the file to Strava.
- No calorie calculation based on HR. Come on, even my 20 euro MiBand does this. And regardless if it is inaccurate, it is better than nothing.
- I use the map-screen with 2 data fields. But there is quite some whitespace below the data fields. Could be improved.
- When completing a ride, the "destination reached" message is overlaying the options to finish the ride. You have to dismiss/lower the message and then press the buttons to stop the ride.
- HR zone (HR with color) can be easily displayed in a single field in a data screen. Should not need a graphical field.
- On my first ride it did not see one of the sensors. I couldn't figure out how to go to the sensor area to 'reconnect' to it while riding.
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Good to hear Menno, I agree with almost all the positive, negative and improvement suggestions.
I do think the UI isn't massively intuitive to new users, and certainly a one page quick guide to the side button functions would b useful online. Their functions are in a state of flux so I understand why a paper guide isn't included.
The map and 2 data screens does have a massive amount of wasted space that could be used for a larger map.
Having the map auto show when approaching a turn should definitely be an option in settings.
Like you I love all the improvements on navigation the K2 brings over Garmins.
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Does it really not take into account auto pauses? I'll have to stop using auto pause.
Do you know if it does take into account a manual pause? I can't get out to test it at the moment.
Maybe there will be no more pub stops/scenic view breaks for me when I'm looking to have the biggest number in my avg speed box.
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Yes it does. It depends how the file is marked up that is shared with Strava. But only when pauses are signalled as ' hard' pauses, Strava will remove them from the active moving time. If not, Strava will use the GPS data to calculate its own active moving time. Pretty poor I think. This is not a Hammerhead limitation per se, but HH could choose to signal auto-pauses as rela pauses to solve it. Here you can read more about it:
https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001188684-Moving-Time-Speed-and-Pace-Calculations
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Hey Menno,
Thank you for posting your insights & observations here! There are certainly very helpful for us on how our users are enjoying the Karoo & the dislikes/improvement areas as well. I would like to assure you that we are doing our best in ironing out the concerns around the battery & our UI/UX as a whole :)
Around your mention of moving time calculation, This is an improvement we have been working on as it does happen when there is a GPS loss, The GPS loss affects both the pauses (Auto/manual) when uploading onto Strava. The Karoo 2 does in fact take into account the pauses during calculating the moving time averages.
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I would like to suggest making navigation arrow smaller and sharper in shape so it is easier to spot where rider is located on a map. Maybe add setting to reduce icon by X percent. Another suggestion would be to add auto screen shuffle between map and data pages every 10 sec or other defined by user.
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Auto showing the map when turns appear is a must and it is stopping me moving from Garmin, we need the visual clue when the turn by turn misses something, it is impossible to get turns correct 100% of the time, Garmin didn't add this feature when the 820 came out and there was an outcry by Garmin uses, they quickly added it back.
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I am fairly new yo this having had my Karoo 2 only a few weeks. I’m a bit worried about ascent accuracy as mentioned in another post. I’ve also decided to turn auto pause off. I think what happens when the unit loses GPS it pauses and doesn’t turn back on. I’ve lost entire sections of rides. This happens more in the MTB than road. Trees here are pretty thick. GPS drops out and the unit goes on pause. When on the MTB, especially descending, I’m too focused on the trail to notice the display telling me it’s paused.
This doesn’t happen with my Suunto watch which I’m now thinking is far more accurate that the K2. I wanted the K2 for it’s visible UI. But it seems I’ve sacrificed data accuracy.
Anyway still early days. Will try for awhile with no auto pause.
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