Roadmap for Hammerhead?
Answered
I found some old links to the "road map" for HH development but they don't seem to work anymore. Does anyone have a working link? Thanks
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And can (everyone) please not start a new thread for issue threads that exist already? All the people that follow the old thread won't get an update about this answer...
This issue was already talked about at;
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I thought I'd bump this post. Would it be possible for Hammerhead to maintain a Roadmap? Every feature request seems to get the response: "Right now, we are not committing ourselves to a dedicated timeline for its implementation as the Product team is working on the features which are already in the pipeline." Which is entirely reasonable.
But it would be nice to know what those features were!
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Thanks, Judah.
We prioritise each feature based on the number of user requests, impact on current and future customer base, usability, market value. These are quite flexible over time and can change at any point while we review, research and plan to add them. The exact timeline isn’t available for us to share for all such features, but we would happily let you know if we are actively working on any specific feature that you enquire about. We just can't promise something that we can’t deliver on time, and would rather be happy to announce timelines as and when they are ready.
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It would be really grate to know what is currently being worked on.
Does Hammerhead use agile software development? Do you use sprints? If so could you just make the features in the current sprint visible to your users? Many software companies do this.
I think this is important for your product as one of your USPs is the ever evolving software (when compared to Garmin and Wahoo). You market your device to users by suggesting that new features will keep being developed.
Either way could you let us know what the currently prioritised features are?
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Thank, Judah. We all agree to this thought. Yes, our software development is based on Agile methodology and Sprints. We believe the product is at a better state now than of Feb 2019 - and we are keen to look into the Roadmap again. We are looking into the format that could serve us all.
As of now, we are working on expanding the ANT+ sensors to control Smart-Lights, managing workouts on Dashboard, Ride summary, and uploading the rides to Komoot.
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+1 Bump for the roadmap from me too. As a long-time Garmin and then Sigma user I finally made the switch to the Karoo 2. I believe in your platform (android which can be sideloaded) and software promise (continuous development). Honestly I am surprised that you don't communicate the roadmap more openly. It is such a strong advantage in this day and age to offer active community discussion. For me personally that alone is the reason why I'll most likely never switch back to the other products on the market.
You have such a fresh ideology. My expectation is not at all to know all details about your development sprint cycles and all of the cool stuff you are working on. But those topics that you can share - even if they take longer to develop.
Appreciate your product and philosophy a lot. Very willing to accept any shortcomings in the product much longer than I would for competing products that are doing it the old way.
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When they started out a roadmap plotted steps along the course,
From the the product's first conception as it surged out from its source
But things got quite complicated as the project goals got old
And the plans all got diverted and they forgot quite how to fold
It back to fit into the desk, and then everyone just stood about and went Oh tisk, tisk, tisk.
So they put your kind suggestions, and your thoughtful helps and hints
Wrapped up in old newspapers, and they've not been heard from since.
You know they once sat down and talked about in long podcasted tales,
Their actions, plans, hopes, and projections and their goal of future sales
In something longer than the time used for a superbowl sized ad
And it really got the team aboard, but that was then , how sad.
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@Richard - what road map do you get from any major cycling computer company the likes of Garmin, Wahoo, Bontrager, etc?? I’d like to see you receive any reasonable feedback to your concerns from any of those corporations. I’ve tried with Garmin and it’s pretty non existent. Hammerhead has been incredible with their response to community concerns and in creating an exceptional product in such a short timeframe.
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In my opinion it is a tad different, @Tom, when part of the marketing behind the unit is that the feature set will keep growing. Now, I'll give you that that marketing comes mostly from reviews but reviewers are typically given marketing material about the product.
Along these lines people are being expected to buy into the promise of 'future features' without having any idea what these features are or the timelines involved.
When one buys a Garmin or Wahoo one buys it solely based on the launch features. Garmin have actually done an amazing job of expanding the feature set in my experience but it has never been part of the value they espouse about the product.
I feel that this is different to how Hammerhead position themselves. Especially, as the features at launch on the Karoo 2 are... well not as comprehensive as their competitors. I think it is therefore fair that their customers expect a higher level of transparency when it comes to the development of the product.
To say that the Karoo 2 has launched as an exceptional product I think is also a little disingenuous. Yes, there are some really great elements: the screen, Strava live segments (actually that's kind of all I can think of). But there have been significant issues with the launch. Software issues, battery life issues, no auto brightness (and not even the hardware to support it), a mounting system which has seen issues... I mean it's obviously a problem when Hammerhead have pinned a forum thread where they recommend that their customers purchase o-rings to add to the mounting system to stop it failing..... Furthermore, it should be noted that this is a second attempt. The Karoo 1 launched quite a while ago - so it isn't even that short a time period!
Please do feel free to vocalise (in text, so not really vocalise) your disagreements with me. I'm always open to differing opinions.
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I think you will get different answers based on usage as users like me have a fairly narrow requirement and so don’t hit too many issues. But I have been frustrated that some UI features that were on the K1 have been lost as well as some gained ( I hope we get them back ) and some that were in their K1 pipeline never ever materialised. So certainly as someone that came to the K1 partly on faith for upcoming features we never got, I’m mildly sceptical as too lf, what and when on the K2. So I play the waiting game to see how things play out re the OS and the mount which seemed to try and fix a problem that didn’t really exist just to be different. Hardware wise my K1 has been solid for the use I put it too and bug free except elevation data. But it’s lost UI features I used and gained none that I will likely use since I got it.
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@ Tom Paskey Agree. Asking Garmin anything provides its own pleasure. They are however quick to understand that rapid and appropriate user engagement ( not necessarily listening) is a big deal. The Karoo world is one with a product in eternal beta, and it needs to engage the motivated , competent , capable and understanding technical interest of its user base. It cannot afford trolling, not big enough. To offer vague dismissive answers (8Ball: Ask again, later) is insulting and caries its own message. They have a capable product with profound vulnerabilities. Garmin is shotgunning the features. Others offer lower prices, and most all the others offer a "universe" of options add-ons and accessories. Their strength so far has been in engaging the creativity of their user base and they are faltering. They stopped the podcasts. they stopped anything other than 30 second flash promotional videos. They stopped engaging in depth using a thin FB likeZendesk CSV model for discussing issues that require depth. They don't really participate in forum discussions or hold tech sessions. So maybe they are adopting the give-a-F model of Garmin, of shallow nonanswers as a policy. I am offering feedback in hopefully constructive form, guided by the self interest that comes from having a potentially great product. It is an 75-80% great product that needs at least 90% to survive. If somebody comes up with a product that puts ANT+ on a cell phone they are going to face a BIG challenge, and you can look at Garmin's SEC filings to see where that could come from, And it's not like Apple is insensate and not interested in the sport/vehicular market. Look at Bosch's COBI.Bike. No, they have a base that they can support better, and it just may be they key to their survival. Look at how Apple got its spot on the map, for parallels. The Karoo is the Apple of bike head units. Currently , though, it is the Apple ll .
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I can see that I'm probably more of a power user than most: moving power meter between bikes, require HRV recording, etc.
I agree with you that some features have been lost from the K1 and the mount is a problem that didn't need a solution. I'd add that even the K2 hardware is inferior in some ways. It's been said in multiple other places on the forum that the K2 lacks the hardware to add adaptive brightness even if they wanted to. The justification for this is that the team found it drained rather than extended battery life. But I have two issues with this:
- Adaptive brightness isn't just to save battery. It's to make sure the screen is visible comfortably in all light conditions.
- The battery drain issue is 100% a software issue. It may even be an issue with the version of Android which is being used. But to be kneecapping the hardware in this way just means that the expectation is that the software actually won't progress that far...
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@Judah Right now there is a fierce competition between ANT+ and BT. Connectivity, device count, directionality of connection and proprietary nature of the Garmin dominated ANT+ , power consumption, interconnectivity and range are in play with each offering advantage. That said more sensors are moving to BT. Look at the Zoom Apple TV connection as an example of the other side of this. look at thisisant.com for a glimpse of what they are working on there. Where is teh HH equivalent ? SRAM just dumped Powertap, which went proprietary-> ANT+->BT->Bye. TBH I wouldn't need anything but a cellphone if I didn't have legacy ANT+ stuff. ANT+ has some strong advantages, but is not like they are things that BT could not achieve, in future iterations. I think the endpoint of the game is a bike PAN, like as seen on autos, and don't see this far off. Does HH have a goal of this , or is their target a buyout? Sadly , you do not have too look farther than Pacific Cycle/ Dorel or Bosch/ COBI.bike to see what that has meant so far.
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@Richard Interesting points! And probably not really the place for the discussion - but there are tangible benefits to BLE at the moment too. For example the more TCP-esque communication when compared to ANT+'s more UDP-esque communication. This is most not important for HR, power, cadence etc. However, for HRV data which is transmitted as time between beats this is absolutely crucial. ANT+ HRV data collected with a Polar H10 is absolute garbage. Way too many artifacts from what is effectively missing data. However, switch to BLE and it is almost perfect. Not something that a 'Bike PAN' couldn't incorporate. But just interesting to note that what I assume was an early design decision for ANT is not acceptable for all physiology data!
(http://www.muscleoxygentraining.com/2021/03/dfa-a1-agreement-using-polar-h10-ecg.html)
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@Judah The roadmap discussion can drift, but having a clear view of resources for training is a part of it. Since HRM is a big part of the metrics many use, reliable data is a huge deal. I will have to compare ANT+ and BLE on my dual band units, but I find them very problematic across the board. This is off topic, but the topic also includes the issue of communication with the components used as seen in the Roadmap. We shouldn't have to rely on folks like DCR for that with a product like this and a user base as it is, to have the discussions that help us interpret what the head unit/sensor system is doing,. The devs should be in the game. That kind of discussion is the difference between a toy and a tool.
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@Richard To be clear I was referring to heart rate variability data (HRV) rather than pure heart rate. I don't believe the Karoos are even capable of recording HRV currently, I use my Garmin. And to detect the bad data you need to process it using something bloke Kubios. Absolutely not something that matters to 99.999% of users. But as you say tool Vs toy! Other missing data isn't great but less serious. But I have moved to using BLE wherever I can.
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Gotcha. The HRV is being used more for risk assessment and Garmin is using it for respiratory rate, using the proprietary algorithm they bought. I think this has potential , as I like RPE as an accessible metric, and RR is part of that. This is why open Roadmap discussion is valuable. HH, like all software companies, has to allocate between development and debugging. Big thanks for the link. Rogers is a good source.
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