Lack of route display options & poor map display = deal breakers
Answered
I was excited to try the Hammerhead Karoo after being a long-time and extensive user of all the top-end Garmin Edge models. The Karoo promised a far better screen quality than any Edge model and it has external buttons to control the zoom level, which touchscreen Edges have never had. The Karoo delivered on those counts, but there are so many other issues involving routes and maps that overall I'm very disappointed in the device.
The biggest deal-breaker, and the reason I'll likely send the Karoo back within the 45-day test window is that I can't display a route without the system constantly flashing up directions and telling me where to go. Grrrr! Leave me alone! I can see where I want to go, I have the map in front of me with a line on it!
I tried the turn-by-turn directions on a Garmin Edge about 5 years ago and was only able to tolerate it for about 10 minutes before I turned it off. Fortunately, on most Edge computers, in the route settings you can select 'Always display' and select a line color and then the line just becomes part of the map, without giving any directions. I might follow the line, deviate from it, or do whatever, and the Garmin just lets me get on with it. I can even have multiple routes displayed in different colors and decide when I arrive somewhere which version of the route to do, etc.
Freedom is good; I don't want the device to tell me where to go. With the map and a line or two drawn on it, and a small amount of attention and intelligence, the turn-by-turn directions are unnecessary and I find them extremely annoying. I did give the Karoo a chance and let it flash up the directions for one ride, but I think I got aggravated by that within the first 5 minutes this time, then I did a couple of intentional deviations and I was unable to stop the device from continuously making up new ways back to my original route that I was never going to use. Please let me turn off the directions; if not, I will be returning the unit!
I imagine that removing a feature would be simple compared to adding new stuff, so this could be done quite easily and quickly. In addition, I'm sure that I'm not the only person who doesn't always follow the route that they planned beforehand and is capable of figuring out how to follow a line by themselves.
Regarding other features, it was nice to finally have the option to zoom in and out using buttons - I've requested Garmin to add this feature using their Edge Remote or Di2 buttons several times over the years without any response. However, doing this on the Karoo with a long-press of one of the buttons is not ideal because it's quite easy to zoom too far before letting go; when using the Di2 buttons it was really hard to know when to let go because there was some lag, but even when using the device's buttons, I had some issues.
Would it be possible to have dedicated zoom in and zoom out buttons? Maybe make the Di2 button functionality customizable to give the option for this to be a simple single-press of each Di2 button rather than a long-press if someone prefers it that way.
Finally, the map display quality is disappointingly poor. The screen quality and responsiveness itself is fantastic, I was very impressed by that and it's way better than any Garmin Edge. Unfortunately, the quality of the map display is seriously lacking. Here's a list of issues that I think could be improved here:
1. Why are all roads white? Multiple colors should be used to distinguish more major roads from minor ones, making the map easier to read. Simply showing some roads as a wider white line and others narrower (but only on certain zoom levels) is not sufficient. I therefore had to use a higher zoom level than I do on the Edge 1030 to be able to easily see the same level of detail, but the map still wasn't as easy to read as on the Edge, despite the Karoo having the far better screen quality.
2. Why is the current location so far up the screen? I'm not that interested in what's behind me and this takes away space that could be used for what's ahead.
3. Why does the white status bar need to be constantly shown at the top of every screen? It doesn't look big, but it consumes more than 5% of the screen. None of the information in the status bar is essential stuff that needs to be shown all the time. The map should take priority and the status bar should be disabled at least on the map page (and I would prefer to see it gone from all pages and instead the connection information only needs to be displayed when swiping down, then time of day and battery level can be included in the regular data fields on individual pages). I hope this isn't a restriction that is inherent in the operating system.
4. The total screen size of the Karoo is extremely similar to the Garmin Edge, but the Karoo is much squarer, which again reduces the distance ahead that can be viewed on the screen; gaining some on the sides doesn't make up for this because that is normally far less useful.
These four factors together mean that I can only see HALF the distance ahead on the Karoo that I can see on the Edge 1030 screen once I set the zoom on each to allow me to see a decent amount of detail. I certainly hadn't expected that given that the Karoo has a better quality screen of a similar size, and this is the second main reason why I'll probably be sending the device back for a refund.
Getting rid of the status bar and moving the current location down are hopefully easy to fix, improving the map display method will take some work, but obviously the form factor cannot be changed.
My final issue with the maps is the storage capacity. On my Edge 1030, I can easily store the whole of western Europe and a few other regions. If the internal capacity isn't enough, I can add stuff to an SD card. On the Karoo, the map file sizes are massive and the storage capacity cannot be expanded. I suppose that the maps are more detailed, but I've never needed anything better than the OSM maps on a Garmin.
Next summer, I'll be doing the Transcontinental Race across Europe, going though about 12 countries in 12-15 days, riding 4000 km unsupported. It's annoying to think that if I use the Karoo then I'll have to find a wifi network occasionally, delete all the old maps and load the maps for the next section.
In the short term, can you fix this by offering less detailed maps that have much smaller file sizes. I never zoom in far enough to see the individual buildings, so all of that information could be removed and just keep the road and land-use information. In the long term, you could remedy the problem by getting rid of the SIM card option (I can't figure out why I'd ever need that since I carry a cell phone with me) and giving the option to insert an SD card instead (far more useful).
The screen and map responsiveness of the Hammerhead Karoo is excellent, and way better than any Garmin Edge. Overall, the Karoo's hardware is top-notch. Unfortunately, the user experience for someone who just wants a rich map display that is easy to read, easy to control and easy to add stuff to is seriously lacking. I've tried to not only list my complaints here, instead I've tried to give ideas as to how to improve the device to avoid others experiencing similar issues, so I hope some of this helps.
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We had that once in multiple releases, that you disable/enable the TBT instructions via the Quick-Menu.
Approximatlly 3 months ago it disappeared and that was exactly one of my main complaints,.........See my post from September/October:
https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/community/posts/360035674613-Toggling-ON-OFF-TBT-Instructions-during-a-ride
Now it is on my private list of improvements ;-)
I never heard or read one good reason to remove this feature?
Of course you can do it via PROFILES, but hey..... that´s if you sit on the couch at home, not while riding the bike.So I hope Hammerhead once again reads it and considers this simple "old" feature to integrate in the quickmenu
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The second improvement would be that the TBT-instructions do not overlap the FIGURES like speed or heartrate or ETA
The other improvement mentioned above about the current location up too much above. Good one!
It would save at least one extra zoom-motion and safer when riding over 30 km/hour (19 miles/hour)====
thanks! -
Alexander - I had a look in the Profile settings and several other places, but haven't found anywhere to turn off TBT directions in any way. I don't mind if it takes several button presses because I want to disable it permanently. Are you sure that this is still available in the settings? If so, can you tell me exactly where. Thanks.
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I totally agree with you Chris!!!!
I have been used Garmin "outdoor" (Dakota and then Oregon) devices instead the Edge series and the feature I love is to show the track I uploaded without any kind of rerouting or indication.
Just show me what I planned and I'm free to decide whether or not to follow or to look any alternatives.
I ride 99% off-road, lot of times the track I follow are not presents on the maps and I don't want the device recalculates an alternative.
I filed an SR to Hammerhead and the answer was "start ride without a route"... I think I'll start the ride without the Karoo and I will continue to use my Oregon 700 (as I did today).
Karoo is a very nice device, brilliant screen (the biggest lack of Oregon) and easy interface, but it's too oriented on ride with route created on dashboard and this is not usefull.
The strange things is that in my opinion just show a track without routing is an easier funcion to be implemented than TBT routing and it's a shame I have to return a device because doesn't implement an easy function.
I created a post in Facebook group and lot of user are in the same situation, I hope HH will find a solution to this annoying issue.
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@Chirs Wite: please check the following description on the Hammerhead support web:
https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/articles/360035127714-Feature-Showcase-TbT-Banner-ControlThis will show how it is done to toggle ON/OFF the TBT-instructions.
Like I said: "nice for configuration while non-cycling", but "not doable while IN RIDE / cycling".
Before October we had multiple software releases where you could do the TOGGLING of the TBT Instruction via the QUICK-MENU (accessible via the top-right button during IN RIDE)cheers, Alexander
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Thanks Alexander. That was helpful. Far from an ideal method, but far better than what I had found so far.
If disabling TBT directions is eventually (re-)implemented properly then hopefully the blue re-routing track won't be displayed when I chose to not follow the route and I can show multiple routes on the map at the same time.
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Hi Chris,
Thank you for sharing all your experiences and feedback. Some of them are really good suggestions. Since customer feedback plays a huge role in our design and development process, I am forwarding your suggestions to the software team. They will be happy to discuss this. If you need any further assistance, please write to us at support@hammerhead.io
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(old thread, but still .... )
I can confirm for Karoo 2 Build 1.179.961.12 the Settings app allows to control Turn by Turn, with the following 3 options:- Always On .... Shows turn-by-turn directions at all times, without covering data.
- On Cue .... Only shows turn-by-turn directions when needed.
- Off .... Never show turn-by-turn directions.
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