Di2 support to be removed
Answered
Just read this : https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/05/shimano-forces-hammerhead-to-remove-all-di2-related-functionality-from-karoo.html
Have we an option to retain for those customers who already have a device and just stop from future sales?
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I agree, there's basically no integration left. The problem is the proprietary protocol that Shimano uses. It means that HH and maybe Sram (the contract in place was signed before Sram bought HH and probably doesn't have a NDA in it with Sram clearly specified) could have access to sensitive tech data from Shimano. I understand that. As I understood many years ago that Shimano doesn't particularly care about their clients. I mean, don't get me wrong, they do awesome stuff but they do it their own way. And you have to adapt all the time. The e-tube app is the best explaination for that attitude. It's poorly made, very often doesn't work, it doesn't even give you features that you have on your cycling computer (the battery icon is pretty much the same I had on my Nokia 3310) and it's everything but user friendly in terms of configuration options. But either you go with that or you have no other choice.
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Sadly there is no upside for di2 users. There’s always a negotiation to be had. It’s easy to blame Shimano too, but how hard did either party fight to come to an Agreement? And unless Shimano plan to release their very own range of computers, what’s the long term issue really? Who knows.
But I’m probably one of tiny minority who did keep their Garmin, and out of curiosity last week I bought a Wahoo, which is sat in the box on my desk.
What will HH do now to be able to retain di2 users who feel like integration is really important?
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As per Marks comment I hope supporting and retuning those customers includes:
- plans to negotiate license and restore functionality with a consumer focused plan
- if that is not forthcoming accept returns refunds for Di2 users
- if neither of the above are forthcoming face the risk of legal action being taken by consumers.This issue could and should have been predicted as such negotiated at the time of the takeover.
I hope option 1 becomes the pragmatic reality as options 2 and 3 would be problematic for HH and consumers alike.
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I don't see how you could warrant return for DI2 users. Standard HH T&C's for all users would have covered their bases.
What legal action could be taken by consumers? Same issue as above... T&C's would cover removal of service and functions at the discretion of HH...
In the end, this is more of a customer satisfaction and retention issue and we shouldn't have to care about how we've ended up here. So it's a case of HH either getting the service back or losing DI2 users. SImple. As a DI2 user, I should not have to miss out on new features and updates in order to keep using my Karoo 2 and it is certainly not going to jump ship to SRAM groupsets.
Good to see Shimano roll out force vector updates to their power meters, which are subsequently supported by Garmin and Wahoo head units... hmmm...
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Hi All, This is a Shimano led decision based on contract terms. We remain hopeful in pursuit of a new path to provide more software features to Shimano riders in the years ahead. Hammerhead has reached out to Shimano, however at this time there is no action from Shimano to allow Di2 compatibility in the future. If you’d like to help our efforts in building a new relationship, please feel free to reach out to Shimano Support and voice your concern
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hi Ali
To lay blame simply at Shimano is a disappointing position.
This would appear to be as a result of the new ownership, why was this not for seen for planned for and mitigated.
It does not detract from your duty and responsibilities to your customers in terms of why they purchased what they did and the fact, for what ever reasons is not what was sold. Where was the legal team when checking the detail of the agreement to ensure it was future proof so as to secure consumer experience.
I appreciate Shimanos decision is poor and it reflects terribly on them, but you retain a reputation affecting number of choices it would appear. I am unsure where T&C stand against what could be considered breaches of consumer law.
I am going for an imminent solution not one in years to come, by that time I will be back with Garmin or Wahoo where I can choose the Shimano or SRAM stable and not be forced into a decision. -
@ali
"This is a Shimano led decision based on contract terms. We remain hopeful in pursuit of a new path to provide more software features to Shimano riders in the years ahead. Hammerhead has reached out to Shimano, however at this time there is no action from Shimano to allow Di2 compatibility in the future"
Hammerhead was unable to negotiate a new deal with Shimano, so that's it. It's HH/SRAM fault AND Shimano's. Tough s**t for DI2 users.
"If you’d like to help our efforts in building a new relationship, please feel free to reach out to Shimano Support and voice your concern"
Oh dear... It is not the customers job to lobby for a deal on behalf of HH.
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HH should not diminish the matter calling the integration that we’re going to loose “small subset of features”. We’re going to not have all there is.
Second: we need some strong answers on the next move. In the cycling world you can’t say “ provide more software features to Shimano riders in the YEARS ahead”. Technology changes by the day. And you have a lot of customers that are strongly disappointed from what’s happening even if it’s not your fault.
Third: I won’t write to Shimano personally and I don’t think that this community should do it. We don’t blame HH but it’s not our issue to fix. You guys from HH have to take care of this, talk to Shimano on our account and show them that they’re damaging their own clients. It’s your job. Not ours. -
Email Shimano and complain.. bikeservice@shimano.com
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I thought I would share Hammerhead's response when I e-mailed them ...
Thanks for reaching out. We completely understand your disappointment. We are also feeling devastated by this directive made by Shimano.
The good news is you have not lost any functionality of the Di2 on your bike, you can still shift your gears as normal with the Di2 controls. The only functions affected are the visual display of gears on the Karoo 2, changing pages on the Karoo 2 while in ride with the hood buttons, and the visual display status of your battery. The explanation in this video may be helpful: https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/05/shimano-forces-hammerhead-to-remove-all-di2-related-functionality-from-karoo.html
If you are within the first 45 days of ownership you will be able to return your device under the 45-day Risk Free Trial. If you have owned your Karoo 2 for more than 45 days, you will not qualify for a refund. Thank you for understanding.
We are grateful for your continued support as we remain hopeful Shimano will be open to reconsider their decision in the future.
It's an interesting spin on what is really a calamity for users. If I read it correctly, my gears will still work (whoop, whoop) but everything else linked to the head unit will not - including the hood buttons.Trying to spin the loss of functionality by reminding me what I haven't lost loses impact when you share a link entitled "Hammerhead to remove all di2 related functionality from Karoo.
Feels a little like trying to sell Christmas to oversized chickens by reminding them how nice sage and onion stuffing tastes.
I appreciate this is a squabble between SRAM & Shimano but Hammerhead to take some ownership of this instead of just fobbing people off.
Rant over
Dave S
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Just wanted to drop my comment in here. This is a dick move by Shimano, period. I don't understand the people that are so pissed at Hammerhead. Yes this is a bummer and I probably won't do the update today because I have a race this weekend I'd like to use the buttons to change pages, but controlling Shimano is not something Hammerhead can do.
It is also not reasonable to expect a business to not go through with a sale to a large company like SRAM due to this potential issue with Shimano. Not to mention the comments I've see saying Hammerhead should have had an iron clad agreement with Shimano to continue the functionality before the signed the deal to sell to SRAM. Really?....you think they would have said "oh well, Shimano won't sign our agreement for di2 access, so I guess we'll have to tell SRAM we can't sell to them". Come on. This is business and unfortunately the people that had di2 and use this functionality are out a feature they like to use but the hand wringing is a bit over the top in my opinion. No to mention that SRAM doesn't have the functionality on their shifters right now either.
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I'm afraid Mark and Edgar have received a more constructive reply than I had. Just
"Your inquiry, CASE xxx has been reviewed by a Team SHIMANO member and is now closed. Details regarding resolution of your case have been sent separately via email"
I have not received any e-mail!
But then Hammerhead have pretty much denied the problem has anything to do with them, regardless that they sold the Karoo2with Di2 integration, promoted the benefits of that integration and now they are removing it.
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Excuse my ignorance but in today's firmware release notes (June 2/2022) there's a reference to a new feature "adding shift data to .FIT files". Does this imply that while shifting cannot be displayed "live" in-ride because of Di2 integration removal it's still there as data points, or is this in reference to another drivetrain system, AXS perhaps? It never says, nor does the page on how to "add" shift data in the Drivetrain Integration article. I have NOT allowed today's firmware update so as to retain Di2 at least for the time being so I'm curious what this added function is really all about. They also talk about integration of AXS data in the dashboard, another sign that the product is swinging quickly towards a "SRAMcentric" ecosystem,
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