Elevation gain totally wrong
Hi there,
I know this topic was adressed several times before but it was obviously not fixed until now.
The elevation gain numbers my Karoo 2 device gives out after each ride have been inaccurate ever since and I had to correct them via Strava. This has been a big disturbance but I was waiting patiently for a fix. And sometimes the numbers were not too bad.
But since a few weeks (can't really tell a concrete date) the numbers are just rubbish. Please see my 2 examples below:
This is a ride from today in Hammerhead Dashboard. It says the total elevation gain was 1348 meters !
In Strava I used the function to correct elevation gain and I got this (which is definitely closer to the truth!):
It calculated 261 meters. That's nearly 1000 meters difference! Totally inacceptable!
And if you look closely to the graphs, you can see that they match. So the device seems to measure correctly when there is a climb or even just a short elevation.
But what you can also see, when you closely to the graph from Hammerhead Dashboard is, that there are short spikes all over. As far as I can see, they occur mostly when descending.
Maybe that's part of the problem? Can somebody confirm that?
Find out where those spikes come from and eliminate them. I think we will have way better numbers then.
I have loads of examples like that. all with the same observation.
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Incidentally I have had two issues with a wahoo Elemnts in two years.
The first involved elevation readings! They changed the unit without question and it was fine.
Two weeks ago the screen fell off that replacement unit. They are exchanging it out questions asked.That’s pretty good service.
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Being in southern France right now, using a German SIM card with data roaming.
Has never been that bad. Elevation data is essentially unusable, both in-ride and later on. Have to do elevation correction in Strava to get meaningful numbers.
And btw low battery warning after 5 hrs of riding. Ended the ride shortly after with 8% left.
Super disappointed.
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Just received mine 3 days ago, first ride on a pretty flat route i do twice a week, karoo 2 giving me 501meters total elevation gain on an 140 meters total elevation gain route, returning it and getting my money back hopefully. Wondering how this is supposed to work with climber .....
Honestly, this device has the potential to be much much better than the garmin ones (I had 520, 530 and now i have 1040), but there are some fundamental issues that they need to resolve and launch a karoo 3, then i will buy it again. You name it:
- Remove the SIM card and just use the phone bluetooth connection
- Add a proper barometer or fix the elevation calculation problem.
- Make climber data fields configurable
...
Super dissapointed, love the size, love the screen, ..... but needs at least 1 more iteration.
Added note: I would vote this is due to the vibrations to the karoo2, too many ups and downs every meter, doesn't make sense. And as soon as you adjust elevation on strava it just get smoother removing all that noise
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@Chemapo: I don't think it is vibration related. Sometimes you can see the elevation raising for several seconds even on smooth tarmac descents. They said that it is probably software related and they are working on a solution. But it is almost half a year since I am waiting for it to be solved. It is really annoying.
Strangely there are periods when it works fine. Maybe in a pressure range it is working properly, or other factors like humidity, temperature can have an effect on the sensor. -
Hi Zoltan
Agree with you it should be possible to solve it by software. Was posting this in a parallel thread:
second attempt today but more prepared with a screen with ascent, descent and elevation data fields to try to understand what's going on. Overall same result as yesterday real ascent around 420m, karoo 3 ascent -> 1190m (ooooopsss).
the elevation i think was pretty much ok but moving +1m -1m too much, and every time that happens, ascent and descent is updated, i believe this might be easy to solve to just update ascent and descent when there is a +3/-3 meters net ascent or descent. The barometer might not have the accuracy to do these updates every meter or even less than that. In my garmin it is only updated when 5-6 net meters elevation gain/loss happens.
Cheers
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Probably it could be solved by some kind of data filtering, but that would cause error as well. The first generation Karoo was fine. I think the problem is with the used sensor or the way they get out or convert the data coming from it. I can't imagine why it's so hard to solve it.
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I made a video yesterday on a small 2-3% hill.
https://youtube.com/shorts/t9nyu4l7krI?feature=share
What is happening here? The grade reading is all over tha place. The ascent is increasing rapidly while the grade is negative. Where does the grade data come from?
The ride has about 450m ascent, Karoo registered over 1100.On this short video of 20 seconds I travelled approx. 80 meters and the ascent inceased 8, so it should show about 10% grade which is far from reality.
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Hi all
Just a quick update on my case, received my karoo 2 a month ago, ascent calculation was totally wrong (x3 most of the cases) so i decided to return it, i have to say hammerhead customer service was very kind and supportive. Last week my friend told me his unit was working fine with regards to ascent calculation so i have decided to try it, and surprisingly works pretty well:
Karoo 2 ascent calculation:
After adjusting in Strava:
This unit was purchased April 2022, so now wondering if something was broken (hardware part ...) in the one i received. I will keep testing this one and will let you know.
cheers
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I think I've found a workaround that works. From my point of view, the incorrect calculation has nothing to do with the barometer chip or SIM card, but with vibrations. I noticed that after riding the same route once on an MTB and once on a road bike. The altitude difference was correct with the MTB, but not with the road bike. Integrated mount on the handlebar. So today I mounted the old Garmin mount with the rubber bands on the stem of the road bike and then rode the same route again. Suddenly the altitude difference is correct. Only 2hm more than Strava calculated on the entire route. Maybe someone could test that, from my point of view it seems to be working now.
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I reported once the same and suggested to calculate only with a threshold of at least 3-4 meters as in my case it was going up and down every meter but finally was not the case with vibration, it’s something else or maybe something more. But if that works for your unit that’s great.
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Interesting - in my case there is a clear correlation with the SIM card I use. Using a Swiss SIM card in Switzerland is fine, using a German SIM card in Germany or in the EU on data roaming regularly produces bad elevation data that needs to be corrected in Strava.
And just noting that nothing has happened about this "top priority" in the words of SRAMs customer support.
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I've had my karoo for months with no elevation problems, and today's start the ascent was strangely high. I have corrected the altitude in STRAVA and from 700m it went to 326m. I have reviewed my oldest activities and they were all correct within a few meters of difference... I don't know what happened today for this to happen to me. My bike and support are the same as always, I hope Hammerhead solves this serious error. I have always carried a Vodafone SIM.
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@Anna Ronkainen: Nope not the case for me. Got a German Sim-Card and tested the same track several times with Sim-Card included but deactivated, Sim-Card activated and removed Sim-Card. Same result with about 1018m ascent on the device and auto-corrected directly afterwards on Strava to 607m ascent. Very annoying to not get this bug fixed.
Tested the same route also with two different Karoos and same procedure with Sim and without Sim. Same result. The two devices were more or less equally wrong with a deviation of just a few meters ascent to each other.
Also it was mentioned to adjust the height calibration manually to solve that problem and I also tested that and it didn’t work for me.
So no solution in sight and the data of the device is not usable at all right now for ascent and descent…
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Here two screenshots of the same route. One recorded with the Karroo 2 and one with a Wahoo Roam 2.
The Karoo recorded it with ascent of 893m and strava corrected it to 517m.
Wahoo Roam recorded it with ascent of 453n and strava corrected it to 519m.Recorded data look very similar and the spikes are the same on both in my opinion.
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Putting the Karoo in a more horizontal position, instead of a slight angle, seems to have improved markedly the readings. Instead of the usual +50% error I got 1300 instead of 1070 on Strava, which is pretty close. I will try to get perfectly horizontal with a bubble level and see what happens.
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1300 instead of 1070 is not even close to being acceptable. That's 21% off. Not the grade of precision a modern device should provide.
Also being forced to install the device in a specific angle is not an option at all. Road racers need the device to be installed as aero as possible. A commuter might want the device to be the most readable in a more vertical position. Both needs to be possible OR Hammerhead has to mark their device to be only used for a specific case.
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Hello everyone,
Just checking in to add that I experience the same issues, elevation is way off on every ride I record, by a significant margin and have to correct it manually on Strava.
I don't have a SIM card installed and I'm using the original mount on my bike.
Really hope this can be fixed by a software update as I really like the device otherwise...
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