Disable REROUTING on karoo2
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+1 for this, please. I do a lot of gravel riding on trails that are not 100% in line with what the mapping might see. I love the rerouting feature but it would be great to be able to turn it either from the control centre or to be able to dismiss it from the map screen when it first comes up.
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Not that I think it will matter but there is an older post asking for this with 50+ votes. Linking it here for future reference.
https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/community/posts/4415011860763-Disable-rerouting -
The problem of rerouting when starting a ride somewhere other than the starting point of the route is at least the one that you can address pretty easily by just dropping a pin somewhere on the route just past the point where you expect to join it and then follow that route until you have joined the route, then cancelling the route to pin route (which just returns you back to the predefined route).
But yes, being able to stop rerouting definitely needs to be an option, especially for cases where the terrain does not match the map and any map-based reroute will a priori be useless.
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As an MTB rider awaiting delivery of my new K2 I'm seriously concerned I have made a mistake given this rerouting problem. My Garmin 530 frequently thinks I'm "off route" because the track I'm on deviates slightly from the planned line. It simply asks if I want to reroute YES/NO and if I ignore it it doesn't do so. That's a bit annoying - if the K2 just reroutes all the time it'll be going straight back. Looks like this isn't a new issue and appears no one but Hammerhead seem to think having it locked on is a benefit. Should have done my research. At least it can go back, but seems a shame for the sake of a simple OFF button (or even a YES/NO).
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Can you be more specific, how is it not working?
Ok, if you are trying to ride the route in the opposite direction, there it is of no help, you’d need to reverse the route first (there are things like one-way streets after all so simply following the route wrong way is obviously not a viable option; supposedly a reverse route function is in the works...).
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I suppose - given my personal use of the device - if when rerouting the map doesn't remove the original planned line (so I can follow it, even if just a small distance away from it), that's workable for me. What I'm concerned about is if when rerouting the original line disappears in favour of an unnecessary detour (perhaps trying to follow roads when I'm intentionally off road) then I'm 'lost'. From Daniel's photos above it appears that's not the case, so you just ignore the suggested detour and it will disappear once the device thinks you have re-joined the correct planned line. My existing Garmin, if you accept the reroute, removes the planned line in favour of the reroute line - exactly what I seek to avoid. At least the Garmin allows you to refuse the reroute and you just carry on.
Delivery today - I'll know by the weekend if I have a problem here!
Sounds like the K2 works for road riders, but not MTB (unless you can plan a route very accurately). Horses for courses maybe. Interestingly, with the Garmin (Edge 530) when booting up you select 'road' or 'mountain' which presumable has an effect on the reroute and what the device diverts you along (paved road, or 'other' - ie a track etc). If only Garmin could make the UI and screen nicer! -
The original (yellow) line always stays there even with an automatic (red) reroute or a route to pin (purple) active.
For me it’s mainly an issue when I need to interact with the map and the (constantly changing) reroutes aren’t helping, don’t have one of these in recent memory so can’t remember exactly how it gets annoying, but it definitely does.
And then the other one is longer rides where I would just want to conserve battery and therefore turn it off to avoid endless rerouting when the planned route and the actual route don’t exactly match (but the correct route is obvious) or when quickly popping off route to get something to eat or whatever. But I have more or less come to terms with having to do something like this at some point anyway. (Note how conveniently the lanyard also holds the powerbank in place :)
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Thanks Anna - that's actually very useful to my 'open the box?' decision later today! All seems a bit of a storm in a teacup when a simple software change would silence the howls of complaint (and make this a more universal product). I can't believe it's that difficult, which makes me wonder what the motivation is at HH.
BTW - I'd be getting a right angle USB cable if I were you - my OCD sense of elegance wouldn't let me crank the device over like that :-) Maybe what I need is a computer that doesn't need a power bank to keep it running due to poor coding! Oh yes, Garmin Edge 530 <clicks return product for refund>
:-) Dave -
Haven’t been able to find an angled cable that is also short enough, but I do have a longer Garmin-style mount, maybe reinstalling that for next summer... I find that the battery life is generally acceptable for what it is (how long does your smartphone run with the screen constantly on) but there is definitely still room for optimizations like this, even more so when using battery saver.
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Hi Erik - the "storm in a teacup" was a reference to Hammerhead apparently preferring to have all these complaints visible rather than just apply what appears to a non-expert to be a minor software change. Of course it actually could be much more than a minor change, and I'm not a coder so don't want to presume. If it were my business, and it's not that easy a fix, I'd probably have said so publicly if for no other reason than to make folks understand that because something looks simple to change it isn't necessarily so. If it is simple, but for some reason HH view it as some sort of USP I'd suggest they need to think again - giving people options is never a bad thing, eh?
I've now got the unit - looks great in every way and the UI makes the Garmin look stone age! Interestingly I loaded a route up that starts about 2 miles from where I live and straight away got a reroute to take me to the start. Will probably get out on the bike Friday so will see how it goes. I really hope it's not a deal breaker because everything else about the Karoo2 is very nicely done, at least in the first few hours playing with it.
Something I have noticed is that if I import a GPX of a route in Dashboard, the default 'Prefer' is always Pavement. If I change that to Trail it seems to optimise the route, snapping, say, a crudely drawn line to the map trail line much more accurately. Looks great, but then I noticed that where there wasn't an adjacent trail on the map it had created some pretty lengthy diversions using tracks that are on the map. Probably inevitable as it has to snap to something, but a shame as otherwise it might have been a form of fix for the reroute issue (assuming the map is accurate to the ground feature). I use GIS systems at work to design fibre networks and there is an apparently magical piece of software that will do this and design trench lines along roads etc. Doesn't work though as many maps aren't accurate or comprehensive enough, and often you don't want to follow roads - but it has to use something to snap to in it's algorithm - and that's the limitation. Probably just as well or folks like me would be replaced by a software package :-) -
Yeah, map data accuracy still seems to be a limiting factor for how smart the unit can actually be and might also be the reason why some people have more issues with rerouting. For me it was also the reason why I turned Climber off completely after the first false positive on a fairly flat road, and I know that Openstreetmap somehow has strange altitude data even though everything should be available as open data over here, and same thing with road quality data (Komoot notoriously suggests unnecessary shortcuts via iffy gravel roads even for road cycling).
The situations where rerouting gets annoying for me have tended to be when the available road layout does not match the map, either because of (very) recently opened roads or roads closed due to road works, and the lack of useful destination signage for the deviation turns the whole thing into an orienteering event. Obviously one’s tolerance for extra annoyances tends to be lower than usual in such situations...
As for minor changes and such, yeah, but the problem usually is that there are hundreds of potential minor changes to make and with triage and testing and everything, things add up. (And there is such a thing as too many options as well.) But at least the regular updates show that something is happening, which is more than you can say about some other companies. Still, I do definitely hope that this particular minor change will end up in the pipeline sooner rather than later.
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Erik - as requested my thoughts after a couple of rides.
So, first ride I chose one of my favourite loops in the Lake District - one I know well and also know there are some short optional diversions. I imported a gpx file created by my Garmin - so I know it's exactly the route. Fairly soon after the start I chose one of the diversions - only goes around 500m from the planned route and is fairly parallel. K2, about 100m 'off route' did a replan, initially trying to send me back to where I 'lost' the route, then switched to a different route back to the planned route but further along. It was fairly illogical as it would involve going downhill to rejoin the planned route only to immediately come back up again. I ignored it and when I got back on the planned route the replan disappeared. During the red replan phase, the yellow line stayed visible so I could navigate based on what I could see on the ground. That's all fine - I think the issue is that the mapping in the K2 is not comprehensive or specific about the type of linear feature on the ground. I'll admit that UK rights of way are not simple and to expect the mapping to understand those definitions is probably a big ask. Plus one vote for being able to turn off rerouting - at least until it can be smart enough to handle off road riding in the UK (likely never).
Later, whilst bang on top of the yellow line the unit suddenly did a completely crazy replan - and when I ignored it all lines disappeared and the unit said 'follow map'. Some time later the yellow line reappeared. This appears to be a known problem which HH have fixed and will come out with the next update. See https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/community/posts/8764275142427-Routes-vanish-during-rerouting-since-latest-update
I did a 4 1/2 hour ride (30 minutes stopped for photos, lunch etc) and finished with 65% battery (screen on 50% brightness, sunny day, perfectly useable display). Given the battery hungry replanning that seems reasonable for what I want. Hopefully when replanning can be turned off it will improve. Pretty quickly I disabled turn-by-turn notifications as I don't really need them (at least on this sort of ride) and also the popup covers the gear data field. I did work out you can swipe down to clear it, but more faff than it's worth IMHO
I love the screen and the mapping format. Enable 'disable rerouting' and I'll love the unit. A very minor (and very first world) nice to have would be that on my Garmin when you hit top or bottom gear it gives a small bleep so you know 'that's it' - that would be a handy feature. I like the import process - very slick. I think my decision is to keep the unit (assuming the 'known issue above' does get fixed in this update) and I'll keep hoping the reroute disable option becomes available.
BTW - I got a discount code on request for the captive rubber plug upgrade, ordered one (free of charge) and it arrived a little over 24 hours later. Very good service HH!
I'm a fan of the 'collective customer feedback' continuous improvement process - feels a little like beta testing, but being positive it's responding to customer demand. That's why I don't get the refusal to allow rerouting to be disabled. Doing so would make the unit very mountain bike friendly, which at the moment tbh it isn't especially.
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@Dave Ryall Great review, Dave and very good of you to take the time and do the testing for the rest of us 👍. And, even more kudos for doing the testing for Hammerhead (SRAM).
65% battery after 4 1/2 hours seems about right for the Karoo2 so at least that hasn't been compromised with the latest changes. As you said, we can only hope that sense prevails, and the 'rerouting' becomes optional.
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