Disable rerouting
Completed
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I’ve just bought a secondhand unit and have already regretted since I cannot return it for a refund.. my previous device was a garmin etrex 20 (released in 2011), where I still have free and up-to-date open street maps with contour data, with so much more information available than the k2 map.
Rerouting is another problem yes, one that I did not knew before, since no rerouting is available on the etrex20! (Ignorance is bliss!!?)
Completely agree with what I’ve been reading in the forums about not being an MTB friendly device.
Navigation maybe good, but only when you are on a map with roads/tracks marked, which is many times not the case for MTB, so actually navigation can be even worse than a 10+ year old garmin made for hiking!
Even with all these issues I still thought it would be easy to fix, as suggested by many posts in the forum. But seeing simple features being requested 3 years ago and still having these issues present to date, it just kills whatever hope I had left regarding the k2.
Bare minimum for MTB: toggle rerouting and maps with contour lines.
Guess I’m stuck with this until I find a roadie to take it from my hands..
Come back, sluggishly slow Garmin menus, you are forgiven… -
helderdavidms - One of the reasons I bought a Karoo2 was as an upgrade to my Garmin Edge 530 (small poor quality screen and clunky UI). My 'workflow' for off road navigation is that I have a smartphone with detailed OS mapping, and the route plotted on it; when riding though I don't want my phone on the bars, and also the OS mapping is a bit too detailed for 'on the fly' quick looks. I wanted what the K2 offers; a nice screen with a simple map and a bold line to follow. Turn by turn is less important to me. If the going gets complicated I can stop and get my phone out and check a proper map. That system works well for me - I don't see the less detailed K2 mapping as a problem - it's actually the benefit. It's part of a system not my only nav solution.
The rerouting thing is a total game changer - and not for the better as I frequently not only have to ignore the K2 because I'm a few metres off track (inevitable off road) but the damn thing takes away my planned route and replaces it with something which is unreliable as a 'get back on track' solution - even if I needed it! I no longer know where I should be heading.
The Garmin also had similar pretentions of rerouting, but it asked if I wanted to accept them (and if I didn't respond it gave up suggesting). Ideal.
I doubt off road rerouting will ever work properly in all countries; the mapping detail alone would be huge, and the logic very difficult to code to deliver a sensible solution; HH please accept that as a reality and shut us all up by offering the option to disable rerouting :-)
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Sure, everyone has their specific usage regarding these devices, some may want racing features, others want to explore, some just want workout data. But when we are talking about a device in this price range, dedicated to provide you with ride and location info, I expect to be able to rely on it entirely for what it was built to do, especially if I'm doing mtb trails, hundreds of kilometers away from home, in unknown territory! Time spent looking at other devices to try and find my way about is time spent "working", when I should just be enjoying the planned ride.
Regarding map detail, my etrex 20 has 2GB of space, where I have around 6 different maps, with routing features, map contours, etc, which I typically end up using only one or two of them simultaneously to get the info I need. It is not a case of huge detail, you just need a very small piece of the map to be fetched to memory (just like when you download a map for your country instead of the entire continent/world, but at a much smaller scale), it is a case of managing information according to the scale at which you expect to see data. The smaller the zoom (which I'm riding is typically from 50m to 200 m), the lower the detail available, especially in mtb tracks. When zooming out, that's when things get complicated, and some strategy must be implemented to deal with the information overload. Nevertheless, from a device with 32 GB of space and 10+ years after, of course I'm expecting much more from what it does currently map related.
Rerouting is currently way too strict, especially having in consideration that GNSS errors can be above 2x or 3x the width of the tracks sometimes, depending on visibility conditions to open sky (those trees blocking line-of-sight doo make a dent on your precision). So in my opinion, the device suffers from believing too much on its own capabilities. If rerouting had this in consideration, it would not be bothering so often, and causing confusion by doing what it does.
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Dave, does the original route (yellow) really disappear when you get a reroute? I have never had that happen myself, I think it was a recently introduced bug that only manifested in certain conditions and was supposed to be fixed in the latest update (but maybe not). See https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/community/posts/8764275142427-Routes-vanish-during-rerouting-since-latest-update and maybe add your examples there as well?
All the same, fully agree that rerouting should be made optional. Personally I would prefer a general on/off switch rather than asking for confirmation every time.
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It's a shame, was early adopter to HH but the constant issues this year and this year has been the worst constantly adding features that nobody wanted causing more and more issues not listening to clients refusing to roll back and making us wait for fix I've had enough and gone back to Garmin.
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I ran into that same issue with constant rerouting. I have a feeling that this got worse over the last couple of updates, can that be? For Mtb/Gravel usage I have to be able to turn rerouting off or at least confirm rerouting. Also the track stays sometimes red even if I join back on the original track. I have the impression that HH is constantly adding new features instead of addressing the core functionalities.
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Ok HH, the forums are exploding with this.
Clearly you guys are not triggered by the litteraly tens / hunderds requests here. What needs to be done? is there an option where we can PAY for it to be disabled?
at this point it is either this or invest in a new (garmin) device, which would feel like a real bummer
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Erik - I'm thinking that's an ironic comment with some humour- we've already paid for a product that works - not a work in progress or a beta testing program. I really find it unbelievable how many times HH have to 'fix bugs' or 'that didn't work, try again' - I don't understand why proper testing isn't done pre-release. It's like we are being experimented on.
Afraid I've lost faith that HH can deliver - the track record over a long period suggests not. I'm looking at options to return my unit to the retailer as faulty - fortunately UK law is quite strong on 'merchantable quality' and 'distance selling' so I may have a case. I'm looking at the Garmin Edge 1030 plus - Garmin ain't perfect but at least it works and isn't in an endless state of chaotic 'fixes which don't fix' or an obsession with new 'features' before the previous ones even work properly.
I really wanted to like the K2 and Hammerhead's philosophy, but it's just not ready for market yet. The trouble is, HH take your money upfront - for the unit itself but also for ongoing service as a working unit. My real fear is that HH go bust and then the server stops working and then the unit is essentially bricked as transfer of routes and ride data etc relies on HH being there. It all feels a bit shaky and 'too clever for it's own good'.
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Job done - unit returned to Wiggle for refund, Garmin Edge 1030 Plus ordered. I tried the Ferrari but am returning to Ford - not as flashy but reliable and does the job. Komoot app preinstalled on unit, rerouting has three options plus OFF, mapping is better, company seems competent if a little staid, but likely to be around for a long time! A mature product from a mature company.
Sorry HH - you're fired. Get your priorities sorted and listen to customer feedback - especially if you're going for this 'community iterative process' approach.
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as this thread has status 'ANSWERED' while it is not answered, i open a new thread: https://support.hammerhead.io/hc/en-us/community/posts/9846116905627-disable-rerouting-on-karoo2. Please resume your answers their again in the hope that HH development will listen to it
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Hi Lee.
I've ordered a 1030 Plus - from Wiggle. They are taking the K2 back.
I kind of feel like I'm going back to safe ground after a little crazy excursion!
Having looked at the 1030+ product videos it looks like the K2 has nothing it doesn't have - and the rerouting looks far more sophisticated (and has a pause button for if you deliberately go off route). The mapping is more comprehensive too, so hopefully that combination adds up to a better experience.
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@Dave Ryall - having been to Garmin world I'm not sure how you're working out that it's better but good luck!
Nothing the K2 doesn't have - killer K2 app - spoken turn-by-turn instructions. No idea why Garmin only gave us that on the heavy duty Montana and in-car units but never on their cycling devices.
'more comprehensive mapping' - I think I've bought Full UK OS mapping three times over the years, the K2 mapping is just fine for road riding. And better than Garmin, it doesn't require an SD card change on crossing back and forth over international borders - an annoying fiddle on the North Sea ferry in Garmin world. -
Hi Rob. I think you maybe have hit the nail on the head - fine for road biking. I'm a mountain biker and as long as rerouting is embedded with less than comprehensive mapping it won't work off road. The Garmin now comes with World wide mapping included. It's not OS standard, but I actually don't want that; I have that on my phone and it's too detailed for on the fly use. The issue with HH mapping off road is that many trails are missing. Garmin's equivalent is more comprehensive in that respect - and its rerouting is way more sophisticated and user definable.
The real killer for.me is that HH coding never seems to be right first time - it's too buggy. The never ending updates say it all. Garmin just feels more professional. I've been a long time Garmin user - I was attracted to the K2 by the better screen (which it certainly has) and a slick interface (which it hasn't). Battery life isn't great either.
I really hope HH get the K2 sorted, but they will need a change of culture to do that. Don't run until you can walk, eh?
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You couldn't have said that better Dave. My HH went up for sale today wife keeping her HH for time being. I'm really sad to leave really but had enough of the alpha state release updates. They apparently have a testing team but after the rerouting bug I don't beleave it to be true. Its crazy to think that system was stable 2 years ago and in that time God knows how many support tickets I've had with unwanted untested updates. Back to garmin with a 1040 and so far nothing has disconnected rerouting seems much better than previous garmins and I get all the metrics from power meter pedals. Which is open source and never added to HH even though asked for many times.
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@Dave Ryall
Long time Garmin user here too.
Unfortunately there level of support varies over their range and as a product ages. They have a bad habit os simply abandoning devies - the Virb Xe and Virb 360 cameras are two examples - the former never got the reliabilty fixes to bring the software up to the level of their original camera, the later just got dropped, but on-the-shelf items continued to be sold.
HH at least are updating and continuing to update their software, even if it does take a couple of attempts sometimes. -
I really don't want to get into a 'mine is better than yours' thing - K2 didn't work for me and that's fair enough. If it works for others that's great.
However, tried out my new Garmin 1030 Plus today.
- Set up automatically in minutes using settings from my old Garmin.
- Whole world mapping included - Europe and US preloaded
- Want contours? Click. Don't want contours? Click
- Rerouting. Want it? Click. Don't want it? Click.
- Rerouting on - how do you want it to get me back on track? 3 main options, with sub options within those.
- Rerouting - accept suggestion or ignore? Touch screen
- Going off route to a cafe? Click pause.
- Back from the cafe? Click resume.
Is the screen and the device itself as nice as the K2? No. It's pretty good though, and what's on it is better. Oddly, as the Garmin screen is longer, and I have gear indicator as a data screen along with a map, the actual map real estate is quite a bit bigger than the K2. Also, the gear indicator gives a little beep when I hit top or bottom gear.
Want a third party app on the device - go to Garmin Connect, select it and it's on.
Want to change settings using your nice big smartphone? Done
Kommoot / Strava / Trailforks on the head unit? Yep - use your phone to link accounts.
Want to import gpx files? Do it wirelessly via your phone, the PC app, or a cable and drag and drop. Your choice.
I see the HH advertising banging on about all the revolutionary features of the K2 - sorry; nice screen and that's it.
So really, I don't want to knock HH or make users feel bad - but Garmin just gave HH a lesson it how it's done IMHO - not stellar in terms of looks, but useable, reliable, and gives users options instead of being rigidly prescriptive.
I'll be honest though - I'm a bit broken hearted. The K2 should be just soooo good - the way the mapping is presented is just lovely - clean and clear; looks like your TomTom or something. Classy. But the rerouting is garbage off road and the constant bugs and fixes that don't fix things have destroyed my confidence. I now have 'returners remorse' - maybe I should have kept it, used something else for a while and waited for it to be sorted.
Bottom line is it's a bike computer FFS - just strap it on and go. The K2 is just too high maintenance for me.
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Obviously the 90 posts in this thread (plus countless other threads) would disagree with the title of this video (“NO ONE Talks About This!”), but anyway it has reached 15k views in a couple of days: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HeXuFKSpYY
So... how about just giving us that option to disable rerouting?
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HH is not listening, please add comments on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HeXuFKSpYY
perhaps this will help as new customers will be more tuned to Youtube then to this forum
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That the rerouting is bad is one thing, not being able to deactivate it is aberrant.
For my part, I left a notice on https://www.eu.hammerhead.io/products/hammerhead-karoo-2 to inform potential buyers. -
Hi All, thanks a lot for all your inputs and suggestions. We want to assure you that we have been paying attention to the conversations and wished to take the next steps after the release with the re-routing fixes. There are still improvements planned in the coming releases, and we would love to solve all these re-routing issues occurring globally and sometimes isolated to a region. Please share your issues/bugs as well as the files in a ticket to the support team, as that's the best way for us to get the fixes out for each of these isolated incidents.
It also seems there's correlation to riding off-road, and we know we must serve off-road riders well to achieve our mission. Once we understand the problem better, we can consider how to provide a proper solution. Until then, we can't comment on timing, but we can assure you that we care about understanding the problem you are facing, why you are facing it, and what we can do to provide a solution.
To that request, please provide your feedback on this form: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdoi-v4nHRgRLy47DfbdZHUt9oF63bM4c3ptO4ey5HiHE4qeg/viewform
Your involvement towards the improvement really matters to all of us. Thanks! -
i completed the form on https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdoi-v4nHRgRLy47DfbdZHUt9oF63bM4c3ptO4ey5HiHE4qeg/viewform and i just want to DISABLE REROUTING, on almost all my routes, i want to see the route, but NO REROUTING.
it is not clear to me of Ali is working for Hammerhead or not !?!?
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Ali,
The need to disable re-routing applies to all types of rides where the routing has been planned out and where re-routing may produce unpredictable results. There are issues with Karoo re-routing when we are on the course, but there are also issues with maps and routing, especially for less traveled gravel routes and trails. I made a bad route using the Karoo route planning tool that illustrates some of the issues: https://dashboard.hammerhead.io/s/BUAFui5K The routing data does not follow the OSM map -- the proposed route is way off the map. Here is another "route" on roads that don't exist: https://dashboard.hammerhead.io/s/hqkMBnLM. The issue may be whoever is maintaining the routing tables is not updating this area (NW Oregon) or that Hammerhead is not updating their routing tables. Other re-routing issues include being re-routed on busy roads trails, through (or around) private property and crazy U-turns (being sent miles down the road to turn around on a one-lane road in the middle of nowhere...). The big issue is that users need to have the option to disable re-routing. Please make adding "disable routing" the priority and then fix the other routing issues.
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Just add an option to disable reroute. Can be set "by profile". Focus on the "rejoin" feature. I want to be able to find my own way back on the route and continue navigating from where I re-entered the route. Without any annoying red lines and beeps.
I'm pretty sure there was no problem like a year ago, reroute never ignored my "yellow" route, as soon as I was back on my route the red route disappeared. Then some update and bang! My Karoo experience was ruined by annoying new feature which is mandatory.
Just one simple thing ASAP: option to disable it for ones that doesn't need it. Then fix it for clients that needs it.
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Thanks Ali for the update, good to hear that there at least is some acknowledgment of there being a problem with rerouting. Still, like the others here, I do not really understand what the major holdup is with giving us a simple option to turn rerouting on and off ourselves.
Even if rerouting were to work correctly in all imaginable circumstances, there is still the issue of CPU = battery use. For example, from a post of mine in a different thread with two screen images, I happened to notice that my Karoo (screen brightness around 40%) went from 100% to 86% in 25 mins of riding of which around 10 mins were spent continuously rerouting. Not great for battery life, I didn’t think the impact would be this noticeable tbh.
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PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE
make an option to turn rerouting off !!! Even if it would work abolut perfect, I dont want it or need it
It just makes stupid things and is no help
I ride a lot of events where it is not allowed to leave the track so an option to disable it would help a lot this red route on the display ist just terrible
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TURN IT OFF
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105 comments over the past year on this issue. I’m going back to Garmin if this isn’t fixed before summer in North America. Erroneous rerouting is actively making riding my bike less enjoyable, especially off-road. There is no way rerouting will ever operate 100% logically or reliably on complex trail systems. So why force us to use it 100% of the time?
Additionally, the GPS accuracy of the device is so poor in the woods that I often get rerouted when I’m actually on the route; the device just doesn’t realize it.
Let us simply disable rerouting and choose to turn it on when needed. Again, this issue makes riding a bike while following a route completely frustrating. I ride bikes to have fun. This is not fun. This mandatory rerouting nonsense is the opposite of fun. Maybe fix this fundamental usability issue before you release more features? I don’t need to know the FTP of my right leg vs. my left.
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